Can anyone defines physics?

  • #51
reilly
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Maxos said:
No.

That is incorrect.

We cannot take the word Physics and then say: "Anyone who used this word or something similar is a Physicist".
Aristotle did not know the notion of Quantifying, and nobody did, before Galileo, he did not know method (Only some "engineer" like Archimedes knew it, at some extent), he did not know modern Mathematics!!!!!!

Galileo, Descartes and Newton invented Physics, full stop.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

First, I'm far from the only one to have made the statement to which you object. See, for example, the excellent series, The World of Physics, Vol 1-3,(J.H.Weaver, ed.) which have articles by many of the worlds leading physcists and scientists, including Aristotle-- Vol1, p291, excerpts from his Natural Science and Its Principles. Further, you will find in this series quite a few knowledgable physicists who are hip to Aristotle's role as a physicist in the development of physics. Scientists today owe much to Aristotle. He shed light on many things -- he asked the right questions. That he could not answer them in terms of our modern sensibilities, simply reflects how much we've learned much since his time.

Regards,
Reilly Atkinson
 
  • #52
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No, it is false.

And I have already explained why.

You haven't considered my objections.

You look like "Simplicio" from Galileo's "Dialogue", you quote and don't say.
 
  • #53
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The ACTUAL definition

Physics: The Study of things that can be Measured.

Thats how simple it is.

So, for all you guys debating who physicists were and/or are..... Anyone that specializes in studying things that can be measured can call themselves a physicist.
 
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  • #54
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Gute Nacht!

What does "measure" mean???

Don't you agree on the fact that measuring is based on the notion of quantifying, that was introduced by Galileo?

Your definition seems to depend on mine.
 
  • #55
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memarf1 said:
Physics: The Study of things that can be Measured.

Thats how simple it is.

So, for all you guys debating who physicists were and/or are..... Anyone that specializes in studying things that can be measured can call themselves a physicist.

Of course this is completely wrong.

Even asuming that you mean "measured" in a pure physical sense, you continue to be completely wrong.

In fact, you are mixing physics with physical science.

See for example, the clasificatory scheme for scientific disciplines used by Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America (the famous PNAS).

Chemistry, Computer sciences, geophysics, mathematics, and of course physics belonging to the physical sciences category. Which is a branch of Natural sciences supercategory.
 
  • #56
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Yes, but in my opinion, Maths is """""only""""" language.
 
  • #57
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Maxos said:
Yes, but in my opinion, Maths is """""only""""" language.
Other call to math a proper science. Some mathematicians talk about existence of experiments on math.
 
  • #58
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Mathematicians should be used to demonstrating instead of "talking".
 
  • #59
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Juan R. said:
Of course this is completely wrong.

Even asuming that you mean "measured" in a pure physical sense, you continue to be completely wrong.

In fact, you are mixing physics with physical science.

See for example, the clasificatory scheme for scientific disciplines used by Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America (the famous PNAS).

Chemistry, Computer sciences, geophysics, mathematics, and of course physics belonging to the physical sciences category. Which is a branch of Natural sciences supercategory.

Its really commendable that you can split hairs and completely miss the point. Have you ever had a physics class? Just so you know, I have had many, and at least in Physics A, B and Modern Physics, as well as Mechanics and Mathematical physics, this exact question is posed. What is the definition of Physics. The teacher in every case, defines physics as the study of things that can be measured.

Now, for the other guy that responded to my answer using galileo. I do not wanat to get into this debate with you, and really do not want to put that much thought into it.

For the math guy, Yes, Math is a science, as I have also had ample philosophy classes and in them some questions have been posed. Among them, what is a science, Every time Physics is the most pure science then biology, and then usually math. Many under the top 3 and then On the bottom is almost always Psychology.
 
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  • #60
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memarf1 said:
Its really commendable that you can split hairs and completely miss the point. Have you ever had a physics class? Just so you know, I have had many, and at least in Physics A, B and Modern Physics, as well as Mechanics and Mathematical physics, this exact question is posed. What is the definition of Physics. The teacher in every case, defines physics as the study of things that can be measured.
Are you suggesting that PNAS does not know that is science or physics? Yeah!!

I'm sorry, I forget that a "general course" on physics given by your teacher is primary literature (of course only in your insane mind).

It is a standard classsificatory scheme of epistemology and ontology of science that physics belongs to the physical sciences category or sciences of "measuring".

Chemistry, Computer sciences, geophysics, mathematics, and of course physics belonging to the physical sciences category. Which is a branch of Natural sciences supercategory. This the official clasifficatory scheme of PNAS.

I have some time, i will find for you some list of disciplines index (UNESCO, etc.) for you

****************************

But find DW standard index

#
# 100 Philosophy and Psychology
# 200 Religion
# 300 Social Science
# 400 Language
# 500 Natural Science and Mathematics
# 600 Technology (Applied Sciences)
# 700 Arts
# 800 Literature
# 900 Geography and History

---------------

#
# 520 Astronomy
# 530 Physics
# 540 Chemistry
# 550 Earth Sciences
# 560 Paleontology
# 570 Life Sciences
# 580 Botanical Sciences
# 590 Zoological Sciences

Physics is of course not THE science of measuring. Other sciences also measure. In a laboratory of chemistry one is measuring lot of things.

I provide a simple and available (online) reference now.

Acording to Wikipedia the "physical sciences" include:

* Astronomy, the study of the universe beyond the atmosphere of the Earth.
* Chemistry, the science dealing with the composition of substances, their interactions with energy and each other.
* Many of the earth sciences, including:
o Geography, the broad study of physical, ecological and political variations across the Earth's surface.
o Geology, the study of the planetary structure of Earth and the physical processes which shape it.
o Hydrology, the study of the movement and distribution of water across the Earth's surface.
o Meteorology, the study of weather patterns and other atmospheric phenomena.
* Physics, the quantitative science dealing with matter and energy.

It is really difficult to think that chemistry or geology are not about "measuring".

What do physicist (of A, B, or mathematical physics :rofl: ) measure the composition of Fe+ on a sample of river water guy?
 
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  • #61
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Isn't Physics the unconcieveable perception and understanding of What God has created for Us to find out in our own time.
 
  • #62
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Or in other away to describe and model the universe and everythig in it.
 
  • #63
ZapperZ
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hhh79bigo said:
Isn't Physics the unconcieveable perception and understanding of What God has created for Us to find out in our own time.
Go back a few steps. Isn't by saying that one has ALREADY made an assumption that all we see was created by this "god"? How is this testable?

Zz.
 
  • #64
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Yeah but not to go into a phylosophical debate, What you have just said has neither proven or disproven my statement. My statement was just a phylosphical view of what physics or more generally science is!!

I think to much therefore I am lol!!!!
 
  • #65
ZapperZ
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hhh79bigo said:
Yeah but not to go into a phylosophical debate, What you have just said has neither proven or disproven my statement. My statement was just a phylosphical view of what physics or more generally science is!!

I think to much therefore I am lol!!!!
Then may I point out to you that the physics section is not the place to make such statements. The fact that it IS not open to be tested, or to be falsified, is the main reason it isn't science and does not belong in this section. If you wish, you may do this in the appropriate section of PF if you care to scroll further down the list.

Zz.
 
  • #66
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I was not trying to down grade anything you were saying, I am a physicist by student and was simply trying to point out that we are infinitly always seeking out knowledge of what is around us. There are some statements cannot be proven nor falsified in physics we call them hypothesi

Im glad we had this discussion

QED

And you might also think about the fact that phylosophy is the reason why science is around.....To be able to answer phylosophical questions have you ever heared of a PhD. (Doctor of Phylosophy) if Im not mistaken that is a title given to physicists aswell as other subjects!
 
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  • #67
ZapperZ
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hhh79bigo said:
I was not trying to down grade anything you were saying, I am a physicist by student and was simply trying to point out that we are infinitly always seeking out knowledge of what is around us. There are some statements cannot be proven nor falsified in physics we call them hypothesi

Im glad we had this discussion
Then you have a very strange way of understanding the things you are a "student" of. A "hypothesis", by definition, is an INITIAL guess that can STILL have some ball-park predictions. If not, it is a mindless speculation. To be able to evolve into a testable idea is CRUCIAL in physics for it to be an accepted and valid formulation. This criteria is not negotiable. There's nothing in accepted physics that does not fulfill this criteria.

However, you tried to make a non-testable statement as part of the definition of what physics is. Can you find where such a statement is either an accepted or a working definition of what physics is? Have you checked various professional physics organizations to see how THEY define what they practice?

What you said does not belong in this section of PF. Period. From now on, please confine those types of "hypothesis" to the appropriate section.

Zz.
 
  • #68
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My last post in this discussion

A hypothesis (= assumption in ancient Greek) is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon

Im not trying to argue with you after all Forums are both to be asked and to ask and also to express ones opinions

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." As Voltaire once said

I dont mean this in a sarcastic way, but I am thankful that we had this conversation

Afterall I am merely a student

regards

hhh79bigo
 
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  • #69
ZapperZ
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hhh79bigo said:
My last post in this discussion

A hypothesis (= assumption in ancient Greek) is a proposed explanation for a phenomenon
And what phenomenon would "Isn't Physics the unconcieveable perception and understanding of What God has created for Us to find out in our own time" explain? You yourself admitted it is an utterly useless statement that isn't falsifiable.

Im not trying to argue with you after all Forums are both to be asked and to ask and also to express ones opinions
Maybe you should read our guidelines before going any further.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." As Voltaire once said
Yes, but who says that you can say whatever you want on our time and our resources? You are a "guest" using a private resource that has been made available upon agreement to the rules put forth.

Zz.
 
  • #70
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I apologise and back down
 
  • #71
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Physics is the study of mechanics, light, heat, electricity and radioactivity.
 
  • #72
reilly
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Maxos said:
No, it is false.

And I have already explained why.

You haven't considered my objections.

You look like "Simplicio" from Galileo's "Dialogue", you quote and don't say.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Indeed I have examined your argument. Contrary to your assertion, I considered your objections, and rejected them. Why, you might ask?

Apparently I did not communicate why I responded as I did, and for that I apologize for faulty writing. So let's try again.

As far as I know the Physics community is a particularly reliable judge of what is and is not physics, and who is or isn't a physicist. (This the part I failed to include.)

My references simply and clearly indicate the the physics community considers Aristotle to have been a physicist. Within the world of professional physicists, my experience suggests that at least 95% of them agree with their community on Aristotle.

Subjective? Arbitrary? Incomplete? Of course. There's nothing that's wrong with your take on Aristotle; it's all a matter of opinion. On this one I go with the mainstream.
Regards,
Reilly Atkinson
 
  • #73
alex fregol said:
Today, my lecturer asked us to define physics. No one give a very obvious and correct answer to the lecturer. Can anyone here give me the best defination of the meaning of physics?? Thanks
"Physics is the science of measurement". It encompasses almost everything. I heard this at my university, and I'll never forget it.
 
  • #74
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reilly said:
On this one I go with the mainstream.
So, good shipwreck.
 
  • #75
krab
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Maxos. I agree it is a bad idea to go with the mainstream in issues of morals, ethics, scientific principles. But the present topic is about language. Here, the mainstream is the final arbiter, else communication becomes dysfunctional.
 

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