Can Electricity Generators Survive with LCOE Higher than Wholesale Prices?

  • Thread starter Thread starter LT Judd
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Electricity
AI Thread Summary
Electricity generators face challenges in profitability due to a disconnect between wholesale prices and the Levelized Cost of Electricity (LCOE), which is often higher than wholesale rates. In Australia, wholesale prices range from $50 to $80/MWh, while new coal and gas generation LCOE is around $90 to $110/MWh. This discrepancy raises concerns about market stability, as many merchant generators in the U.S. reportedly operate at a loss. Factors such as aging coal plants and the impact of intermittent renewable energy sources contribute to these dynamics. As older generation assets phase out, prices are expected to rise significantly, complicating the financial landscape for electricity generation.
LT Judd
Messages
25
Reaction score
8
TL;DR Summary
There seems to be a disconnected between wholesale electricity prices and the Levelized cost of electricity.
I can't see how electricity generators can make money. I am from Australia so multiply figures by around 0.7 to convert to USD.

Electricity prices and power generation have become a bit of an ideological battle ground in my country so prices are in the news . Whole sale electricity prices seem to be running around 50-80 $/MWhr this year . Taking the mid range- that works out to about 6.5c/kwhr. Household Retail price are about three times that, so that sounds fair to allow for transmission, distribution and profit.
We have a wholesale competitive market where generators bid in in 10 minute blocks - I believe the US has something similar. The whole sale price is what the generator gets paid .

However when I look at published data for LCOE for new entrants, it seems to be around 90-110 $/MWhr for new coal and gas turbine generation.

LCOE is supposed to just be the 'break even" cost so I don't understand how it can be more than the whole sale price . How does anyone make any money??. That's probably why is has become a political football. All I can think of is that most of our power comes from ageing coal fired plants whose capital costs have been written off long ago.
Is it the same dynamic in the US ?, anyone have any ideas how this can be?
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
LT Judd said:
Summary:: There seems to be a disconnected between wholesale electricity prices and the Levelized cost of electricity.

Is it the same dynamic in the US ?, anyone have any ideas how this can be?
It is complicated, so simplified answers should be taken with a grain of salt.

We are in a time where many things are changing, technology, costs, laws, business models. That alone should be expected to produce winners and losers.

That same wholesale model applies to large parts of the USA. While generalization is risky, I believe that the majority of merchant generators who entered this market have lost money, instead of earning profits. (But I have no access to their balance sheets to verify that.) It is worrisome because the markets could become unstable.

This PF Insights article addresses the question of energy market stability.
https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/renewable-energy-meets-power-grid-operations/
 
LT Judd said:
about 6.5c/kwhr. Household Retail price are about three times that, so that sounds fair to allow for transmission, distribution and profit.
And tax too. Never forget the tax:doh:.

LT Judd said:
LCOE is supposed to just be the 'break even" cost so I don't understand how it can be more than the whole sale price . How does anyone make any money??.
They have to aim for special periods or circumstances. In Europe old coal and old nuclear keeps the average price low, and there is practically no gap here till they exists (in sufficient number). On the other side intermittent 'green' made a wide gap for reserve gas, and being a reserve pays out far above average => gas turbine plants like mushrooms after a rain.

Also, there is some room for scheduled generation.

But eventually old coal and old nuclear will phase out, and after that prices will considerably rise. That's it in short.
 
Last edited:
LT Judd said:
Taking the mid range- that works out to about 6.5c/kwhr.
By the way, wholesale prices in the USA are now in the 2.0-2.5c/kwhr price range. Prices have been severely depressed because of COVID, and the generators are losing money faster than ever.
 
  • Informative
Likes Klystron
Thread 'Weird near-field phenomenon I get in my EM simulation'
I recently made a basic simulation of wire antennas and I am not sure if the near field in my simulation is modeled correctly. One of the things that worry me is the fact that sometimes I see in my simulation "movements" in the near field that seems to be faster than the speed of wave propagation I defined (the speed of light in the simulation). Specifically I see "nodes" of low amplitude in the E field that are quickly "emitted" from the antenna and then slow down as they approach the far...
Hello dear reader, a brief introduction: Some 4 years ago someone started developing health related issues, apparently due to exposure to RF & ELF related frequencies and/or fields (Magnetic). This is currently becoming known as EHS. (Electromagnetic hypersensitivity is a claimed sensitivity to electromagnetic fields, to which adverse symptoms are attributed.) She experiences a deep burning sensation throughout her entire body, leaving her in pain and exhausted after a pulse has occurred...
Back
Top