Can Greek Letters be Added to the Reply Menu in Online Forums?

[chemisttree]

I read on another thread that a member has the entire lower case greek alphabet in the sig line. Very logical.

How about putting that as a handy tool in the Reply dialog box like we have for Youtube, Spoiler, Sub and Sup, etc...? Other useful symbols would be nice as well but how about starting with the alphabet?

 

[Kurdt]

Good idea.

 

[tiny-tim]

ß ∂ ∆ µ π ∏ ∑ Ω … √ ∫ ≤ ≥ ≠ ± #

hi chemisttree!

I read on another thread that a member has the entire lower case greek alphabet in the sig line. Very logical.

How about putting that as a handy tool in the Reply dialog box like we have for Youtube, Spoiler, Sub and Sup, etc...? Other useful symbols would be nice as well but how about starting with the alphabet?

i suggested that almost three years ago (i felt sorry for non-mac users ), but it didn't get much support at the time …

… could they be incorporated into the standard Reply page so that people can simply copy-and-paste them?
They wouldn't need buttons, they could just be ordinary type.[/INDENT]

All I'm asking is that standard characters be printed somewhere on the reply page, ready to be copied by anyone who doesn't have a Mac …

EDIT: Hootenanny supported it in a later thread …

… how difficult would it be to add a menu for inserting HTML entities into posts, similar to the LaTeX menu recently added? When typing a response, it isn't always necessary to use the presentation power of LaTeX for the odd Greek symbol or equation, however it's a bit of a pain to look up the decimal codes for various HTML entities. A quick drop down menu (maybe of just the Greek symbols) would make life much easier for writing short equations or for those no familiar with LaTeX, perhaps it would also reduce the unnecessary load on the server.

Just a thought.

i wonder whether there's any way of staring a facebook-style "group" on pf, to lobby for it?

 

[dlgoff]

A quick drop down menu (maybe of just the Greek symbols) would make life much easier for writing short equations or for those no familiar with LaTeX, perhaps it would also reduce the unnecessary load on the server.

Does using these greek letters and symbols add that much of a load on the server?

 

[Astronuc]

Does using these greek letters and symbols add that much of a load on the server?

I believe it's less of a burden than LaTeX.

 

[jhae2.718]

I don't see why Greek letters/mathematical symbols would cause any burden. Given how LaTeX needs to be compiled and have images cached, though, I could see performance gains in minimizing the usage of LaTeX for displaying trivial equations. Most of the forums I visit with LaTeX support show a performance degradation, just to add some anecdotal evidence.

I think this is a good idea.

 

[Redbelly98]

Does using these greek letters and symbols add that much of a load on the server?

No, he (Hootenanny) meant that LaTeX adds a load. My understanding from what Greg has said is, both generation and storing of the LaTeX image files puts an extra load on the server.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Won't be necessary. We will look into switching to mathjax once 1.1 is out of beta.

 

[jhae2.718]

Mathjax looks really interesting.

 

[Fredrik]

A few useful links:

https://www.physicsforums.com/blog.php?b=347
ASCII symbols
http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestions/international/bylanguage/mathchart.html

I'm a bit concerned by the fact that MathJax doesn't mention vBulletin anywhere on their web page, but maybe that's just because it works fine with all PHP-based applications.

Edit: Another thought...if the current LaTeX problems are caused by the service provider's web cache (which seems likely) how do we know it wouldn't be exactly the same with MathJax?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

maybe that's just because it works fine with all PHP-based applications.

That is correct.

Edit: Another thought...if the current LaTeX problems are caused by the service provider's web cache (which seems likely) how do we know it wouldn't be exactly the same with MathJax?

See for yourself if you think it behaves the same way
https://www.physicsforums.com/mathjax/preview.html

 

[JaredJames]

See for yourself if you think it behaves the same way
https://www.physicsforums.com/mathjax/preview.html

Is it server heavy?

Seemed a bit slow processing (may be my net connection).

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Is it server heavy?

Seemed a bit slow processing (may be my net connection).

If you are using a new browser with a good javascript engine then it's a lot better than image generation, storage and retrieval.

 

[JaredJames]

If you are using a new browser with a good javascript engine then it's a lot better than image generation, storage and retrieval.

Oh don't get me wrong, it worked a lot better than latex.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Oh don't get me wrong, it worked a lot better than latex.

The only downside is that MathJax doesn't fully support TeX functions since it must translate in the end to an HTML environment. Still I'd say it supports the vast majority of what people need.

 

[Kurdt]

Doesn't seem to work for me. Error on page. I presume its my end.

 

[Fredrik]

Doesn't work for me either. There's a text that says "Type some TeX code and click off the textarea box". Below that there's a rectangular area that I can type in, and below it says "You typed: ${}$". Doesn't seem to matter what I type. Hm...I'll try it in IE too...I'll be back in a minute.

Edit: It didn't work in IE, but now that I've seen Greg's post below this one I understand why.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

sorry I am updating it to 1.1b to test, i'll post again when it's ready

 

[JaredJames]

I typed in it, click outside and then at the bottom (on my browser) it said "transferring from Physics Forums" and then it popped up what I'd typed underneath the box.

You may want to wait a little bit for it to refresh after you've clicked outside.

 

[Borek]

404 now.

 

[JaredJames]

404 now.

Greg's updating it.

sorry I am updating it to 1.1b to test, i'll post again when it's ready

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

ok try now at https://www.physicsforums.com/mathjax/test/preview.html

 

[JaredJames]

When I put the tags around it, is it supposed to show them when it converts it?

Also, pressing enter just takes me down a line and doesn't refresh the view.

I put in something really simple: a = \frac{f}{m} : [t e x] a = \frac{f}{m} [/t e x] and it converts it OK, but still shows the tex tags. (I added spaces to the tags so it wouldn't convert it.)

 

[Gokul43201]

Works for me. Is there a capability for inline TeX?

 

[Gokul43201]

When I put the tags around it, is it supposed to show them when it converts it?

Also, pressing enter just takes me down a line and doesn't refresh the view.

I put in something really simple: a = \frac{f}{m} and it converts it OK, but still shows the tex tags.

Ditch the tags.

 

[JaredJames]

Ditch the tags.

Wow, feel like a right plonker now! Facepalm moment.

So in real application, it would recognise latex without the need for tags?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Works for me. Is there a capability for inline TeX?

The default is inline

So in real application, it would recognise latex without the need for tags?

never does need tags

 

[JaredJames]

never does need tags

Didn't know that. So when people put them in they don't need to?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Didn't know that. So when people put them in they don't need to?

in the mathjax app tags are never needed

 

[JaredJames]

in the mathjax app tags are never needed

Ah right, with ya!

 

[dlgoff]

I'm getting firefox script errors. It's probably my lack of understanding how to use it.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I'm getting firefox script errors. It's probably my lack of understanding how to use it.

In 3.6.13 I get two trivial css errors

 

[Fredrik]

Works fine for me now. It looks good. I would prefer a slightly bigger size for the stuff we'd normally use tex tags for, but I assume that sort of thing can be tweaked later.

Will we still be using tex and itex tags as before?

I can't tell if this will solve the problems we have right now.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Works fine for me now. It looks good. I would prefer a slightly bigger size for the stuff we'd normally use tex tags for, but I assume that sort of thing can be tweaked later.

indeed

Will we still be using tex and itex tags as before?

nope

I can't tell if this will solve the problems we have right now.

The equations are generated on the fly. There is no storage or caching.

 

[Fredrik]

Sounds good. Oooh...I just discovered the http://www.mathjax.org/resources/articles-and-presentations/accessible-pages-with-mathjax/ . Pretty sweet.

 

[VietDao29]

OMG... I must say that I'm really into MathJax now: neat, and beautiful... :x Hope that it'll soon be implemented on our server. :)

Oh, and btw, how can I enter a new line in MathJax?

 

[Fredrik]

The LaTeX code for new line is \\, but it doesn't seem to work in the default environment. It does however work in the align environment, so I would suggest that you use that. For example,

\begin{align} x &= 1\\
y &=2
\end{align}

Alternatively, I'm guessing that we're going to have to put some kind of tags around the math expressions, so you could just put separate tags around expressions that are to appear on different lines. This is of course how we do this now.

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[Kurdt]

Still not working.

 

[Fredrik]

Still not working.

What happens when you try? (It's working fine for me).

 

[Kurdt]

What happens when you try? (It's working fine for me).

Errors on page, then nothing.

 

[VietDao29]

Did you try this page?

ok try now at https://www.physicsforums.com/mathjax/test/preview.html

The LaTeX code for new line is \\, but it doesn't seem to work in the default environment. It does however work in the align environment, so I would suggest that you use that. For example,

\begin{align} x &= 1\\
y &=2
\end{align}

Alternatively, I'm guessing that we're going to have to put some kind of tags around the math expressions, so you could just put separate tags around expressions that are to appear on different lines. This is of course how we do this now.

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2

Yeah, I think there should be some kind of tags, or there may be some way to work around, like enabling \\ by putting \begin{align}, and \end{align} at 2 ends of every post.

 

[Kurdt]

Did you try this page?

Yep.

 

[Borek]

What does "press RETURN" means? Or more precisely - what it DOES? I know how to hit Enter, but unless I click outside of the edit field (as it was required previously) nothing happens.

 

[Fredrik]

What does "press RETURN" means? Or more precisely - what it DOES? I know how to hit Enter, but unless I click outside of the edit field (as it was required previously) nothing happens.

It's the same for me. I just assumed that the app is working as it should, and that the text is wrong about what you should do.

Errors on page, then nothing.

Does it work when you try it in another browser?

Yeah, I think there should be some kind of tags, or there may be some way to work around, like enabling \\ by putting \begin{align}, and \end{align} at 2 ends of every post.

You rarely need newlines in LaTeX expressions in a forum post, but a button or a key combination (like Ctrl+A) that inserts

\begin{align}

\end{align}

when you click/press it would be nice. I wouldn't want them inserted by default.

 

[jhae2.718]

The eqnarray environment works.

 

[Fredrik]

I think eqnarray is considered more or less obsolete. align is easier to use and the output looks better. See e.g. this blog post.

 

[jhae2.718]

Thanks for that; played around a bit with both environments and I'm inclined to agree.

 

[Fredrik]

I did a "view source" on one of their demo pages. It appears that the tags to begin and start a math expression are \( and \) respectively. Those are pretty annoying to type on a Swedish keyboard, where you have to hold down Alt Gr to type \ and Shift to type ( or ), so I hope there will be a button that we can click to insert the tags. It would be awesome if that feature is sophisticated enough to check if some text is currently selected, and in that case insert the tags before and after that text. (MediaWiki (e.g. Wikipedia) has this feature). This would enable us to type the math expression first, highlight it, and then click the button.

I'm probably just suggesting things that Greg and chroot have already thought of, but it's not like I have anything better to do right now.

Edit: Looks like \( \) is used where we would use itex tags, and \[ \] where we would use tex tags.

 

[dlgoff]

I think eqnarray is considered more or less obsolete. align is easier to use and the output looks better. See e.g. this blog post.

Thanks for that Fredrik. I think I can even learn how to do this.

Hopefully Greg will provide a little tutorial but I'm bookmarking your link for now.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I did a "view source" on one of their demo pages. It appears that the tags to begin and start a math expression are \( and \) respectively.

Could be wrong but I bet that is something we can easily change. In fact, thinking about it, we'll need to change it to our tex tags so past equations are preserved on once the old latex images are gone.