Can the Ground Temperature be Expressed in Terms of the Emission Temperature?

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on deriving the ground temperature (Tg) in terms of the emission temperature (TE) using energy balance equations for different atmospheric layers. The key equation proposed is Tg = (2f)^0.25TE, with f needing to be defined algebraically. Participants emphasize the need to incorporate the definition of TE, which is given as TE = (f0/4)(1 - α)^0.25. Suggestions include manipulating the equations to eliminate variables like Ta and e to simplify the derivation. Ultimately, the conversation revolves around the correct application of simultaneous equations to achieve the desired expression for Tg.
il27

Homework Statement

:[/B]Use the energy balance equations you wrote down for the ground layer, the atmospheric layer, and the above the atmosphere layer (space) in part (a) to show that the ground temperature Tg can be expressed in terms of the emission temperature TE as follows:
$$ T_g = (2f)^.25T_E $$
and provide an algebraic expression for f .

Homework Equations



Ground equation:

$$ (1 - \alpha - a)\frac{f_0}{4} + e \sigma T_a^4 = \sigma T_g^4 $$

Layer:

$$ \frac{af_0}{4} + e \sigma T_g^4 = 2e \sigma T_a^4 $$Top of atmosphere:

$$ \frac{f_0}{4} = \frac{ \alpha f_0}{4} + (1-e) \sigma T_g^4 + e \sigma T_a^4 $$

The Attempt at a Solution

I tried adding the layer and ground equation, and i ended up getting the top of atmosphere equation, but i am having trouble just manipulating the equations to get:$$ T_g = (2f)^.25T_E $$
 
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il27 said:

Homework Statement

:[/B]Use the energy balance equations you wrote down for the ground layer, the atmospheric layer, and the above the atmosphere layer (space) in part (a) to show that the ground temperature Tg can be expressed in terms of the emission temperature TE as follows:
$$ T_g = (2f)^.25T_E $$
and provide an algebraic expression for f .

Homework Equations



Ground equation:

$$ (1 - \alpha - a)\frac{f_0}{4} + e \sigma T_a^4 = \sigma T_g^4 $$

Layer:

$$ \frac{af_0}{4} + e \sigma T_g^4 = 2e \sigma T_a^4 $$Top of atmosphere:

$$ \frac{f_0}{4} = \frac{ \alpha f_0}{4} + (1-e) \sigma T_g^4 + e \sigma T_a^4 $$

The Attempt at a Solution

I tried adding the layer and ground equation, and i ended up getting the top of atmosphere equation, but i am having trouble just manipulating the equations to get:$$ T_g = (2f)^.25T_E $$
None of the equations you quote mention TE. You need to involve a definition of that.
 
haruspex said:
None of the equations you quote mention TE. You need to involve a definition of that.

$$ T_E = (\frac{f_0}{4}(1 - \alpha))^.25 $$ is the emission temperature.
 
il27 said:
$$ T_E = (\frac{f_0}{4}(1 - \alpha))^.25 $$ is the emission temperature.
Try using your three given equations to eliminate Ta and e, then see what you have left.
 
haruspex said:
Try using your three given equations to eliminate Ta and e, then see what you have left.
should i add all the inputs of the 3 equations and then set them equal to all the outputs of the equation?
which equations should i use?
 
il27 said:
should i add all the inputs of the 3 equations and then set them equal to all the outputs of the equation?
which equations should i use?
Do you know how to manipulate simultaneous equations? If you have two equations involving some variable x that you want to get rid of, get one of them into the form x=(some expression not involving x) and use that to substitute for x in the other equation.

Edit:
il27 said:
which equations should i use?
I see that you only really have two equations. The third can be derived from the other two. That being so, it does not matter which two you use, the result should be the same. It also means you probably cannot eliminate both Ta and e, so just go for eliminating Ta and see what emerges.
 
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