Can this planet have an ocean of water?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of an exoplanet with specific characteristics maintaining a body of liquid water, potentially the size of an ocean, under low atmospheric pressure conditions. Participants explore various factors including atmospheric composition, temperature, and planetary rotation that may influence the existence and longevity of liquid water on this planet.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether a planet with 0.5 Earth masses and 0.10 bar atmospheric pressure can support an ocean of liquid water.
  • Another participant notes that at 285 K, the saturation pressure for water vapor is approximately 16 mbar, suggesting a significant portion of the atmosphere would be water vapor.
  • There is a discussion about the mass fraction of water vapor in the atmosphere, with one participant indicating that the total mass of the atmosphere and its composition will affect this fraction.
  • Some participants propose that an ocean larger than the Indian Ocean could exist, with one suggesting that the water fraction could be arbitrary within a wide range.
  • One participant describes the intended atmospheric composition of the planet, including nitrogen, oxygen, and carbon dioxide, while considering the implications for simple life forms.
  • There is speculation about the effects of the planet's rotation and axial tilt on climate, with one participant suggesting that shorter days and a greater tilt could moderate temperature differences.
  • Another participant references Mars as a comparison, suggesting that a planet slightly more massive than Mars could retain water for billions of years.
  • One participant inquires about the feasibility of a global ocean existing under the same atmospheric pressure, while another asserts that the size of the ocean is not limited by atmospheric conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the conditions under which liquid water could exist on the planet, and the discussion remains unresolved on several key points, including the implications of atmospheric composition and planetary characteristics.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge various assumptions regarding atmospheric pressure, composition, and temperature, as well as the potential effects of planetary rotation and axial tilt on climate, without reaching definitive conclusions.

willstaruss22
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Lets say there is an exoplanet with 0.5 Earth masses and is 0.8 Earth radii. This planet has an atmospheric pressure of 0.10 bar/10% as thick as Earths atmosphere with an average surface temperature of 285 K. Can this planet have a body of liquid water the size of an ocean with the low atmospheric pressure?
 
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Saturation pressure at that temperature is ~16mbar, a significant fraction of your atmosphere would be H2O.

The escape velocity at the surface is roughly 10km/s. This is similar to earth, indicating that the lifetime of the atmosphere is similar as well. Some hydrogen will be lost, but water can be present for billions of years. A magnetic field can help against solar wind, but it is not necessary, as Venus shows.
 
So how large a fraction are we talking, over 10 of the total mass of the atmosphere?
Could an ocean as large as the Indian Ocean exist?
 
willstaruss22 said:
So how large a fraction are we talking, over 10 of the total mass of the atmosphere?
You gave the volume fraction on surface. 285 K means 16 mbar saturated water vapour. Since the total is 100 mbar, it means 84 mbar is other gases.

This is the volume fraction. What the mass fraction is depends, on surface, what the molecular mass of the other gases is. Total mass of the atmosphere, depends also on the climate. The upper levels of atmosphere will be less than 16 % water, because some will rain or snow back down, but exactly how much less depends on the details of atmospheric composition and climate.

willstaruss22 said:
Could an ocean as large as the Indian Ocean exist?

Sure. An ocean bigger than Pacific could also exist. The water fraction is arbitrary, in a wide range.
 
Well my planet will have 73% nitrogen, 8% oxygen and 2% Co2 factoring the 16% water vapor. I was kind of going for simple life that is resistant to solar radiation producing oxygen in the atmosphere. I was expecting there to be 50% land 50% water on the planet.
 
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I was expecting there to be 50% land 50% water on the planet.
Should be fine.
The density is slightly higher than Earth's, indicating more heavy elements, and probably more radioactive decays in the core. It looks like plate tectonics is possible.

If oxygen is produced, something (living or not) should consume oxygen again.
 
Now as far as rotation is was going for 12 hours and going for a tilt of 28 degrees but I am not sure how the climatic condition of these two will act in a 0.10 atmosphere. My thinking is the shorter days will even up the temperature differences to an extent and that the more extreme tilt will even the difference between the equator and poles.
 
More tilt will lead to more extreme seasons at the poles, in addition to the colder climate there.
 
Ok so do you think that with the conditions presented the liquid oceans could last a few billion years?
 
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  • #10
Mars, with 0,1 Earth masses, had running rivers, and probably oceans, for a long time. It seems likely that a planet slightly more massive than Mars could keep its water.
 
  • #11
Ok so you said that there could be an ocean the size of the pacific ocean on this planet. So here is a question what about a global ocean with no land at all still keeping the atmospheric pressure at 0.10? I have heard that regular oceans and seas can exist in liquid form with a atmosphere like this so what about a total global ocean?
 
  • #12
There is no limit on the size of the ocean (well, it cannot cover more than 100% of the surface :p). This is independent of the atmosphere - if oceans are possible, their size is not restricted.
 

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