Can we say Angular Velocity is a 'moment' of tangential velocity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between angular velocity and tangential velocity, specifically whether angular velocity can be considered a 'moment' of tangential velocity. The scope includes theoretical and conceptual aspects of mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that angular velocity (ω) can be viewed as a moment of tangential velocity, suggesting a relationship between the two vectors.
  • Others argue that while the moment of velocity (r x v) provides the direction of angular velocity, it does not determine its magnitude, leading to the assertion that ω ≠ rv but rather v = rω.
  • A later reply questions whether the vector form of tangential velocity can be considered a moment of angular velocity, suggesting that this interpretation may not be accurate.
  • Some participants emphasize the importance of precise mathematical relationships in physics, arguing that semantic choices should not cloud the understanding of these relationships.
  • There is a discussion about the established meanings of terms in mechanics, with a participant stressing the need to adhere to conventional terminology for clarity in communication.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether angular velocity can be considered a moment of tangential velocity, with no consensus reached on this interpretation. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the semantics and implications of these terms.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the potential ambiguity in terminology and the importance of established definitions in mechanics. There is an acknowledgment of the complexity involved in understanding these concepts, which may depend on the context and specific definitions used.

Soumitra
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If a rigid link pin joint-fixed on ground and is rotating freely about the same point with uniform ang. vel., can we say the vector form of angular vel. (omega) is nothing but moment of the tangential (perpendicular) vel. at the other end?
 
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The moment of the velocity (r x v) would give you the direction of the angular velocity vector but not its magnitude as ω ≠ rv but rather v = rω.
 
pixel said:
The moment of the velocity (r x v) would give you the direction of the angular velocity vector but not its magnitude as ω ≠ rv but rather v = rω.
Thanks
 
pixel said:
The moment of the velocity (r x v) would give you the direction of the angular velocity vector but not its magnitude as ω ≠ rv but rather v = rω.
So can we say that vector form of tangential velocity is 'moment' of angular velocity, right?
 
pixel said:
The moment of the velocity (r x v) would give you the direction of the angular velocity vector but not its magnitude as ω ≠ rv but rather v = rω.
Soumitra said:
So can we say that vector form of tangential velocity is 'moment' of angular velocity, right?
I think the answer must be No, strictly. Surely you should say that the angular velocity is the 'moment' of the tangential velocity. That would make more sense.
 
you can say anything, choose whatever semantics you wish but that will only cloud what is going on and you will still have the same equation, physics power derives from expressing laws and and phenomena in terms of precise mathematical relationships, the word you use to refer to the precise mathematical relationships is arbitrary and will not add any substance or clarity, if you want gain intuition write down the equation for the most general case (no numbers, all symbols) and then one can proceed from this expression to different specific special cases; playing around with these equations, staring at them, and letting our subconscious bat that around all are the ways physicists gain deeper insight into a problem, not by trying to come up with the newest trendy bumper sticker catch phrase, which is ambiguous because its bound to be interpreted as many different ways as people who hear it (the major handicap of non mathematical sciences and why they will all be subsumed by physics in due course as is already beginning to take place in chem and bio and climatology etc
 
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Zachary Burell said:
you can say anything, choose whatever semantics you wish but that will only cloud what is going on and you will still have the same equation, physics power derives from expressing laws and and phenomena in terms of precise mathematical relationships, the word you use to refer to the precise mathematical relationships is arbitrary and will not add any substance or clarity, if you want gain intuition write down the equation for the most general case (no numbers, all symbols) and then one can proceed from this expression to different specific special cases; playing around with these equations, staring at them, and letting our subconscious bat that around all are the ways physicists gain deeper insight into a problem, not by trying to come up with the newest trendy bumper sticker catch phrase, which is ambiguous because its bound to be interpreted as many different ways as people who hear it (the major handicap of non mathematical sciences and why they will all be subsumed by physics in due course as is already beginning to take place in chem and bio and climatology etc
Don't get me wrong but, It's hard to digest!; So (in short) did you mean 'What's in a name'?
 
The term "moment" has a well defined meaning in the area of mechanics. Expressed vectorially, the moment of a vector V is r x V, where r is the position vector of the point where V acts with respect to a specified reference point.

You can say anything you want (provided you live in an area with freedom of speech), but you will not communicate clearly with others unless you observe the well established meanings of words.

You say "it's hard to digest!" I strongly suggest that you think about it until you do understand it, and work with what others have already given you in terms of terminology, rather than wanting to invent your own terms.
 
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