Can you eat Ikizukuri cuisine?

[Greg Bernhardt]

That wasn't what I was implying. I was talking about non-human subjects.

Non human, so what about a chimpanzee? Is that ok to eat alive?

How is eating a frog alive in anyway related to physically abusing a baby?

Because as you claim babies feel pain on a "biological (physical) level, not a qualitative one", so it's ok to abuse them just like it's ok to abuse a frog.

 

[surprise]

Non human, so what about a chimpanzee? Is that ok to eat alive?

Don't watch the following video if you have a weak stomach -



What's "ok" as you promptly put it, isn't a matter of fact, but of opinion. Unless you can show me evidence of a book that outlines the absolute morals of humans concerning food consumption.

Because as you claim babies feel pain on a "biological (physical) level, not a qualitative one", so it's ok to abuse them just like it's ok to abuse a frog.

Again, if abusing babies is your thing, then that's your thing. Do I agree with it? No. But who am I? Am I God? So, define what's "okay" and "not okay".

 

[Monique]

The frog's brain functions at a level that is so primitive it interprets threats to it's existence merely on a biological (physical) level, not a qualitative one.

Can you explain that one? What is non-physical pain?

 

[surprise]

Sentience is the ability to feel, perceive, or be conscious, or to experience subjectivity. Eighteenth century philosophers used the concept to distinguish the ability to think ("reason") from the ability to feel ("sentience"). In modern western philosophy, sentience is the ability to experience sensations (known by the technical term "qualia"). For Eastern philosophy, sentience is a metaphysical quality of all things that requires respect and care. The concept is central to the philosophy of animal rights, because sentience is necessary for the ability to suffer, which is held to entail certain rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience

Imagine if we created an AI embodied in the form of a robot. You already know where this is headed. Does it feel pain? obviously not. How do we know? Well, unless you believe the motion of atoms within it's mechanical brain somehow allows a pile of constructed plastic and electric wiring to 'feel' pain, then it really isn't able to experience suffering.

Which is why I subscribe to the belief that what we experience as pain is more advanced due to a higher form of consciousness. (i.e. non-physical, but metaphysical).

I should really be asking you this question. You have the PhD, so you're the genius, not me.

 

[Monique]

Yes, I am a biologist and not a philosopher that deals with the metaphysical world.

So you are suggesting that a baby does not have a high cognitive ability, so it can not experience pain? I don't don't think I need to argue that babies experience pain. A doctor wouldn't perform complex procedures on a baby without applying the appropriate analgesics. One can say "the child won't remember when it's older, so let's save some money and cancel the pain medication". However, the behavior of the child will change in response to the experience (the baby might even die, due to the stress). Other animals do so as well, including invertebrates.

Your example of the robot is not appropriate, since biology is much more complex than that. To illustrate, the following article has a thoughtful description: http://ilarjournal.oxfordjournals.org/content/52/2/175.full.pdf#page=1&view=FitH

In order to experience pain one must first have the receptors and nervous system to process the information from the noxious stimulus. Then there must be physiological changes in response: stress, followed by avoidance learning and prolonged memory. These processes happen in primitive animals as well.

I often meet people who belief that fruit flies cannot learn and that they don't have specific types of memory, but they do. Rejected male fruit flies even turn to alcohol, which stimulates the reward center in the brain (http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2012/03/sexually-rejected-flies-turn-to-.html ).

High cognitive ability is often an argument, but even humans with severe intellectual ability show signs of pain perception. Pain is not only a reflex (touch something hot, pull finger away), it's a complex biological system that's present throughout the animal kingdom. Our experiences are a result of chemical reactions, which are not exclusive to humans.