Can You Independently Power Each Socket in a GFI Outlet?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the electrical wiring of GFI (Ground Fault Interrupter) outlets and duplex outlets, specifically whether it is possible to independently power each socket in these configurations. Participants explore the implications of wiring choices for a project involving stage lighting, touching on safety concerns and practical applications.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that both sockets in a GFI outlet are powered by the same Hot/Neutral line pair.
  • Others mention that some GFCI outlets have a Hot/Neutral In and a Hot/Neutral Out, allowing for downstream protection.
  • Participants inquire whether duplex outlets can be powered independently, with one suggesting that duplex plugs are typically powered in parallel.
  • There is a discussion about the safety implications of powering two sockets in a duplex outlet from different Hot/Neutral feeds, with a participant highlighting the risk of one outlet being powered while the other is thought to be off.
  • One participant shares their project goal of controlling multiple lights independently using a microcontroller, seeking advice on suitable outlet configurations.
  • Another participant suggests using single outlets for a cleaner solution and discusses the availability of junction boxes for housing multiple outlets.
  • A participant notes that duplex outlets may have a tab linking the live and neutral wires, which can be removed for split wiring, but emphasizes the need to verify this.
  • Concerns about ground loops are raised when discussing the grounding of multiple outlets.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that GFI outlets and duplex outlets are typically powered by a single Hot/Neutral line pair, but there is no consensus on the feasibility or safety of independently powering duplex outlets. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach for the participant's project.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the wiring configurations and safety implications, particularly regarding the potential for ground loops and the specific wiring practices in different regions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals involved in DIY electrical projects, particularly those interested in stage lighting or similar applications requiring independent control of multiple outlets.

thedash
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If I have just a regular a GFI like this: http://www.ehwms.com/images/Electric/GFI%20Outlet.jpg

I can power each of the two sockets individually by bringing each it's own power line and neutral line, right? (this is what I want to do -- I'm using GFIs for a project (non-electrician home electrical type stuff)

Or are they both powered by one power and one neutral line?
 
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thedash said:
If I have just a regular a GFI like this: http://www.ehwms.com/images/Electric/GFI%20Outlet.jpg

I can power each of the two sockets individually by bringing each it's own power line and neutral line, right? (this is what I want to do -- I'm using GFIs for a project (non-electrician home electrical type stuff)

Or are they both powered by one power and one neutral line?

They are both powered by the same Hot/Neutral line pair.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
berkeman said:
They are both powered by the same Hot/Neutral line pair.

damn. thanks.
 
thedash said:
damn. thanks.

What you might be thinking of is that some GFCI outlets have a Hot/Neutral In, and a Hot/Neutral Out. The Hot Out is switched by the GFCI mechanism, so you can protect downstream outlets with the single GFCI unit. You label the downstream (regular-looking) outlets as GFCI protected, and if the downstream outlets stop working, you have to remember to go reset the single FGCI outlet switch.
 
thedash said:
What about regular duplex outlets like these (the double ones): http://media.photobucket.com/image/single electrical outlet/jwelectric/rec15and20.jpg ... can I send power to each one of those plugs independently, or is it like the GFI where one incoming set of hot/neutral controls the whole double-outlet?

AFAIK, the duplex plugs will always be powered in parallel. Even if they seem to have two sets of Hot/Neutral contacts, that is just to facilitate daish-chaining them.

What is your application? Why do you want to power them indepently?

Note that there is a safety reason to not power the two sockets in a duplex outlet from different Hot/Neutral feeds. Can you think of the problem?
 
berkeman said:
AFAIK, the duplex plugs will always be powered in parallel. Even if they seem to have two sets of Hot/Neutral contacts, that is just to facilitate daish-chaining them.

What is your application? Why do you want to power them indepently?

Note that there is a safety reason to not power the two sockets in a duplex outlet from different Hot/Neutral feeds. Can you think of the problem?
Thnx for the info!I'm actually trying to build a little project for stage lighting (for my band) where you'll be able to plug in up to four different color lights, and they'll each be independently be controlled (turned on / off) by a microcontroller...so this isn't for a home application. I'm looking for some easy kind of electrical outlet/receptacle (4 of them) that I can independently control and fit neatly into a project box. I was thinking of using two duplex plugs, but I guess I can't control each plug independently.

And out of curiosity, what is the safety problem with powering both independently?
 
thedash said:
Thnx for the info!


I'm actually trying to build a little project for stage lighting (for my band) where you'll be able to plug in up to four different color lights, and they'll each be independently be controlled (turned on / off) by a microcontroller...so this isn't for a home application. I'm looking for some easy kind of electrical outlet/receptacle (4 of them) that I can independently control and fit neatly into a project box. I was thinking of using two duplex plugs, but I guess I can't control each plug independently.

Ah, good. The safety issues comes from having what you thought was an outlet that you locked out at the breaker box, but the other outlet is still powered! Yikes.

I'd recommend using single outlets like the one shown in your latest link. That should be a pretty clean solution.
 
berkeman said:
Ah, good. The safety issues comes from having what you thought was an outlet that you locked out at the breaker box, but the other outlet is still powered! Yikes.

I'd recommend using single outlets like the one shown in your latest link. That should be a pretty clean solution.

Ah ok thanks! Do you know of any good enclosure/box that could fit four of those in a row in it and would still be easy to drill holes into ?
 
  • #10
At the hardware store, you can buy the outlets, as well as metal "junction boxes" that they mount in. You can get them 2-wide and 4-wide, and it sounds like you would want the 4-wide junction box. You can get facades for the junction boxes that give you a clean front appearance.

Be sure to ground the metal box with the ground leads that come in with your 4 power cords. There are ground screws in the metal j-boxes to accommodate this grounding safety feature.
 
  • #13
berkeman said:
AFAIK, the duplex plugs will always be powered in parallel. Even if they seem to have two sets of Hot/Neutral contacts, that is just to facilitate daish-chaining them.

What is your application? Why do you want to power them indepently?

Note that there is a safety reason to not power the two sockets in a duplex outlet from different Hot/Neutral feeds. Can you think of the problem?

Maybe it's just in my neck of the woods, but there's often a tab on the side that links the top and bottom live and neutral wires. You can snap this off to facilitate split duplex wiring for the hot leg (in kitchens), and I *believe* this is the case for the neutral as well (but you'd be better off verifying with a continuity meter).

However, the ground conductors will still be linked (so you may end up with ground loops, if this is a concern...)
 
  • #14
MATLABdude said:
Maybe it's just in my neck of the woods, but there's often a tab on the side that links the top and bottom live and neutral wires. You can snap this off to facilitate split duplex wiring for the hot leg (in kitchens), and I *believe* this is the case for the neutral as well (but you'd be better off verifying with a continuity meter).

However, the ground conductors will still be linked (so you may end up with ground loops, if this is a concern...)

I actually intend on connecting all the grounds and neutral together, so this might work out well. The hot is the only one i want to turn on and off independently among all the outlets with relays.
 

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