What is your opinion on cannabis?

[BLUE_CHIP]

I'd quite like ur oppinion on whether drugs should be shunned.

Cannabis in particlular.

 

[Kerrie]

Part of the reason cannabis has remained illegal for recreational use is because of the wood, cotton and oil industries...if you legalize the plant for recreational use, all kinds of industries can utilize hemp for paper goods, clothing and fabrics, and the hemp seed can be used for fuel...

see this link with this amazing quote from our first president of the united states:
http://www.cannabis.com/untoldstory/hemp_2.shtml

 

[meteor]

I am ashamed to confess this, but I yesterday bought a piece of chocolate cannabis to a friend of work for 10 euros. It have been seven years since I didn't smoke cannabis, and 5 years since I didn't smoke at all, but I wanted to remember past experiences. So, I took my motorbike, and hid in a near mountain to smoke and think about the future. I am always thinking all the time in mathematical terms, trying to remember formulas and trying to reason things, but then after the smoking, I noticed that I wasn't able to reason and to develop ideas like always. I noticed my mind very blinded. Going back to home two policemen stopped me to ask me the documentation, they should have notice something strange in my face. They checked that it was right and let me go. Now I think that my experiences with cannabis have ended forever.
I have never taken trash like cocaine, LSD or other things. I consider my capacity of reasoning the best thing that I have, and I don't want to lose it.

 

[Monique]

Originally posted by Kerrie
Part of the reason cannabis has remained illegal for recreational use is because of the wood, cotton and oil industries...if you legalize the plant for recreational use, all kinds of industries can utilize hemp for paper goods, clothing and fabrics, and the hemp seed can be used for fuel...

see this link with this amazing quote from our first president of the united states:
http://www.cannabis.com/untoldstory/hemp_2.shtml

If that were true, why hasn't that industry taken off in the Netherlands? We could transport the product all over the world and almost have a monopoly.. should I send a telegram to the Queen and start a campaign?

 

[Andy]

Yea that would be cool, chewing Hemp paper would become quite popular in classrooms. Would you get high from the fumes given off by the fuel?

 

[Kerrie]

Originally posted by Monique
If that were true, why hasn't that industry taken off in the Netherlands? We could transport the product all over the world and almost have a monopoly.. should I send a telegram to the Queen and start a campaign?

how much of your land is used for farming, and how much cotton, paper and oil do you import? also monique, read my link and you will see the history of hemp, it was huge here in america from the 1700's to the early 20th century...

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by Monique
If that were true, why hasn't that industry taken off in the Netherlands? We could transport the product all over the world and almost have a monopoly.. should I send a telegram to the Queen and start a campaign?

Then where are you going to grow the flowers?

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by BLUE_CHIP
I'd quite like ur oppinion on whether drugs should be shunned.

Cannabis in particlular.

From experiance, (Not hypocracy) YES!

(If you never start, you will never Need)

 

[Andy]

I have done it once or twice now and won't rule out taking it again but i will never take enough to get addicted to the stuff.

 

[Monique]

Originally posted by Kerrie
how much of your land is used for farming, and how much cotton, paper and oil do you import? also monique, read my link and you will see the history of hemp, it was huge here in america from the 1700's to the early 20th century...

Holland is all agricultural, so lots of fields to grow the stuff. How much cotton, paper and oil we import? Why? anyway.. I guess it is more profitable to export flowers than raw material to make paper, especially with electronics taking over

 

[tribdog]

Cannibis would never be legalized if I ran the world. I'd rather see speed become legal before cannibis. The main reason I feel this way is because I hate talking to people who are high. Smoking marijuana makes you a moron. Laughing at stupid stuff, can't answer a question. I've done every kind of drug there is, some of them 1000s of times, and if you looked at how my life is you'd never want to do drugs. I'm a homeless bum, I live behind the library in a sleeping bag. I've been stabbed in the neck over a bad drug deal. I have nothing and everything wrong with my life is a result of drugs. I haven't done any drugs in quite a while-about a year- but the damage to my life is already done.

 

[Kerrie]

as far as i know, the United States exports a lot of paper products and cotton, thus that is where the profits currently are...if you grow hemp, it does not necessarily mean you are going to have the marijuana bud grow also, this is a common misunderstanding of the masses...the male plant does not have the THC rich flower, but still has the hemp fibers that could replace cotton (hemp is much stronger and durable, plus the first american flag was made from it)...where i live, hemp stores are popping up everywhere, unfortunately these shops also have smoking devices...having these products marketed with hemp clothing is not doing the true hemp industry any favors, only tying hemp with the illegal drug...

as far as medical marijuana, it's legal for certain patients, young and old where i live to have a prescription for it...you can't criticize it as medicine until you do the same for other pain relievers that people get hooked on (such as vicodin, a drug easily addictive)...marijuana is not physically addictive, but some can be mentally needy for it...

recently, a study was published of the similarities of the marijuana buzz to a runner's high...
Runner's high / Marijuana high

the moral stigma that marijuana has is because the american government has made it illegal and their ads of portraying marijuana as a stupid drug has many convinced...of course, they don't do this with alcohol except for the drinking and driving aspects...but i have known people to do far stupider acts while intoxicated with alcohol then marijuana...

here is a situation that you need to evaluate it for yourself rather then listen to the almighty and "trustworthy" government...their intentions of keeping it illegal have nothing to do with your best interests, but in the best interests of money...

 

[Kerrie]

Originally posted by tribdog
Cannibis would never be legalized if I ran the world. I'd rather see speed become legal before cannibis. The main reason I feel this way is because I hate talking to people who are high. Smoking marijuana makes you a moron. Laughing at stupid stuff, can't answer a question. I've done every kind of drug there is, some of them 1000s of times, and if you looked at how my life is you'd never want to do drugs. I'm a homeless bum, I live behind the library in a sleeping bag. I've been stabbed in the neck over a bad drug deal. I have nothing and everything wrong with my life is a result of drugs. I haven't done any drugs in quite a while-about a year- but the damage to my life is already done.

no offense trib, but that's like saying a spoon causes obesity and guns cause crime...

 

[tribdog]

Originally posted by Kerrie
no offense trib, but that's like saying a spoon causes obesity and guns cause crime...

Maybe I am, I screwed up my own life the drugs didn't do it for me. HOwever if I had never done drugs my life wouldn't be screwed up like it is.
I won't try to force my morality on anyone, but I've seen enough things to convince me that drugs are bad news. I've pulled a knife out of my neck and bled to death on a dirty floor and the only reason for it was drug related.

 

[LURCH]

Originally posted by Kerrie
the moral stigma that marijuana has is because the american government has made it illegal and their ads of portraying marijuana as a stupid drug has many convinced...of course, they don't do this with alcohol except for the drinking and driving aspects...but i have known people to do far stupider acts while intoxicated with alcohol then marijuana...

I agree with your reasoning, but I hold the opposite position; I believe these are excellent reasons to ban alchohaul, not legalize pot. But the main thought behind your position I agree with whole-heartedly; it is rediculous to have laws against pot in a land where alchohaul is legal. It's just a question of degree, alchohaul is by far the harder drug.

 

[Monique]

How about smoking, or gambling..

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Personally the decriminalization of Cannibus should proceed towards legalisation of the drug, as it is way less socially damaging then alcohol.

In a recent ruling by the Supreme Court of Canada it was found/ruled that there was "No inherant right to smoke/use Cannibus", by the same token there is no inherant right of any government to remove, from it's citizens, the rights of Freedom of choice with respect to what they ingest (so long as it is not toxic to the immediacy or latency of suicide) unless the Government can show demonstrable evidence of the Social Harm that is being caused by the to be criminalized drug...these kinds of rules were not followed in the past...and, sadly, it is exactly because of the present Imposed regime of legality (respective of possession) that the very data that a government NEEDS, is lost, because the medical histories remain incomplete due to the unwillingness to have a user thrown in jail for simply admitting to being addicted, ergo incomplete medical pathologies concerning potential long term health effects which everyone would be/do better, forewarned of.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend alcohol either...had enough difficulties in my own life from that one, even though by God's grace I can have alcohol, now, without the cravings or loss of self control respective of putting the drink down, and walking away...couldn't do that, back then...can get real rough if you get addicted, really rough!

 

[kyleb]

Originally posted by tribdog
Maybe I am, I screwed up my own life the drugs didn't do it for me. HOwever if I had never done drugs my life wouldn't be screwed up like it is.
I won't try to force my morality on anyone, but I've seen enough things to convince me that drugs are bad news. I've pulled a knife out of my neck and bled to death on a dirty floor and the only reason for it was drug related.

ya you were dealing with a drug dealer who had a criminal mentality. if it were legal you could have picked up your pot at a local smokeshop and not had to worry about any knife welding delinquents.

criminalizing victimless crimes only leads to providing criminals with more opportunities to victimize people, this main reason i think that drugs should be legal.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by kyleb
ya you were dealing with a drug dealer who had a criminal mentality. if it were legal you could have picked up your pot at a local smokeshop and not had to worry about any knife welding delinquents.

criminalizing victimless crimes only leads to providing criminals with more opportunities to victimize people, this main reason i think that drugs should be legal.

Ditto.

(even though I can say that "I don't think anyone should be trying them..." BECAUSE I have the personal experience that taught me what addiction(s) can do to someones life...not, "Do as I say, not as I do" more like, listen, please, to what I have learned, if you can accept that I am, truthfully, trying to assist/help you, then maybe you will/can spare yourself what I had to go through to know these things, but you too might find out, as you progress, in life, that we all need some sort of 'out' emotionally/physically/spiriually...just that 'Drugs' are one of the outs, ("simple, cheap, and easy"...NOT really! that's the common "self deception") there are better ones then those...)

 

[hypnagogue]

I think it should be legal. It is not physically addictive or especially physically harmful if taken responsibly. It's not desirable to be a pothead, but the converse is almost just as bad, in its own way: to never experience a new and interesting way to perceive the world, to be limited to two states of consciousness for the entirety of one's life ('everyday' waking consciousness and dreaming).

It's like banning people from visiting the Grand Canyon because there is the possibility one could fall and get hurt or die; rather than restrict people in this way, we should tell people what they can expect on their prospective journey, warn them of any risks and consequences, and then allow them to experience part of what nature has to offer them, if they so wish. Responsibility ultimately falls to the individual to take proper caution, given an informed perspective.

 

[BLUE_CHIP]

This article was in the Telegraph this morning.


Blunkett's softer line on cannabis 'not enough'
By Sean O'Neill
(Filed: 26/01/2004)


David Blunkett, the Home Secretary, should go further than this week's legal downgrading of cannabis and decriminalise or legalise the drug, according to a survey for The Telegraph.

More than 50 per cent of those questioned believed the sale and possession of cannabis - to be downgraded from a Class B drug to Class C on Thursday - should no longer be a criminal offence.


Click to enlarge
The YouGov survey found 28 per cent favoured decriminalising the drug, making it a minor offence, while 23 per cent wanted full legalisation.

Despite rising concern about links between cannabis and mental illness, only 43 per cent believed selling or possessing the drug should remain a criminal offence.

The survey of more than 2,500 people was one of the largest polls on public attitudes to drugs.

A majority of those questioned - 52 per cent - expressed approval of the Home Secretary's decision to reclassify cannabis.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2004/01/26/ugov226big.gif

The survey revealed, however, that 44 per cent of people regard cannabis as "seriously addictive". But almost a third said alcohol was a greater problem in society than drugs.

Prof John Henry of Imperial College, a leading drugs expert, said the survey appeared to betray a lack of awareness about the adverse health effects of cannabis and its role as a "gateway" drug.

"There would not be a drugs problem if people did not start on drugs, but the Government seems to be saying to young people 'Hey, it's OK to try this drug'," he said.

"This is a dangerous time to be relaxing the law. Cannabis is a relatively new drug, there are more users and it is getting stronger. But we don't have enough experience or data to know what the long-term effects are. There are heart and lung problems similar to those created by tobacco and there is a definite link with schizophrenia.

"At a time when tobacco smoking is being clamped down on, it seems contradictory to be lifting the lid off cannabis."

Addaction, the drug treatment charity, said the poll reflected "a shift in understanding" to supporting a proportionate response to different drugs.

Rosie Brocklehurst, a spokesman for Addaction, said she was worried about "confusing messages" coming from different police forces about enforcement of the new cannabis law.

"The majority of people seem to understand why cannabis should be reclassified," she said. "Many have had the experience of how damaging the postcode lottery in enforcement has been. Young peoples' lives are blighted for ever when they are forced into the criminal justice system and through it some are coerced into a harder drug culture."

23 January 2004: Cloud of confusion over cannabis law
12 January 2004: Cut-price drugs hit the streets

My oppinion of Cannabis, although it may be a little bit bias as I myself am a regular user, is that bureaucracy should be left out of it. Give the people the right to make the choice whether they user it or not.

Sure one should still give the lectures to children and broadcast the ill affects of the drug but one should still give the choice to the people.

Its a really lame comparison to make but:

Smoking is killing millions more than cannabis is every year. and the government is making a killing off it too. surely its wrong to say that cannabis is worse that that?

 

[Monique]

I just want to say that if a drug is legal, doesn't mean it will get abused per se. I mean, I go to coffee shops quite regularly (they are licenced to sell softdrugs) with friends, and we have never gone there to buy anything, we just go there to play pool..

I myself have never used drugs of any kind and I live in Amsterdam of all places! (you might think; :P) some of my friends have used it or use it once in a while, but in the same way as you'd eat a bar of Magnum.. you eat it, feel good and that's it.

Some people grow their own and use it, but they'd never sell it or anything.. criminal circuits are prevented. I've never seen it as a negative thing and in documentaries I've seen that usage rates in the US are far higher than in the Netherlands.

Just my two cents..

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by Kerrie
Part of the reason cannabis has remained illegal for recreational use is because of the wood, cotton and oil industries...if you legalize the plant for recreational use, all kinds of industries can utilize hemp for paper goods, clothing and fabrics, and the hemp seed can be used for fuel...[/URL]

I've heard that argument a lot and I don't buy it. To me its like the Detroit 80mpg carburator conspiracy theory.

the moral stigma that marijuana has is because the american government has made it illegal and their ads of portraying marijuana as a stupid drug has many convinced...of course, they don't do this with alcohol except for the drinking and driving aspects...but i have known people to do far stupider acts while intoxicated with alcohol then marijuana...

They don't call it a "stupid drug" because of its acute effects, they call it a "stupid drug" because of its chronic effects. Thats what separates it from alchohol.

All that said, I'm a big believer in freedom, so I'm fairly ambivalent about keeping it illegal. The government does need to crack the whip on cigarette companies though.

 

[Monique]

I'd rather have stupid people walking around than aggressive due to alcohol intoxication..

 

[mikehuntsloose]

I'd rather have stupid people walking around than aggressive due to alcohol intoxication..

or you could have stupid people that are also aggressive due to alcohol intoxication. Ever been to Iowa?

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

You do realize that it has already been decriminalized in 11 U.S. States, and that Canada announcing that it had/has intention of following the same route has brought us forewarnings of "increased border waiting times" for trucks/truckers bringing Canadian Goods to American markets...

 

[Kerrie]

Originally posted by russ_watters
I've heard that argument a lot and I don't buy it. To me its like the Detroit 80mpg carburator conspiracy theory. They don't call it a "stupid drug" because of its acute effects, they call it a "stupid drug" because of its chronic effects. Thats what separates it from alchohol.

All that said, I'm a big believer in freedom, so I'm fairly ambivalent about keeping it illegal. The government does need to crack the whip on cigarette companies though.

what is your reason for not buying it? did you not read where i specified the difference between hemp and the THC rich flower? did you not know that it was legal and never a problem in the United States until it became illegal? did you not read that our founding fathers of this country used it for the industrial uses? russ, i dare you to research the pro-hemp websites to see what the other side says...it would seem to me that you don't buy this because of your bias set in place against marijuana itself...

as far as the "stupid" drug stigma it carries, again people need to take responsibilities for their actions and not place the blame on something else...

oh yea, i can almost bet by your "tone" in your post, you have never inhaled for yourself...

 

[tribdog]

Originally posted by kyleb
ya you were dealing with a drug dealer who had a criminal mentality. if it were legal you could have picked up your pot at a local smokeshop and not had to worry about any knife welding delinquents.

criminalizing victimless crimes only leads to providing criminals with more opportunities to victimize people, this main reason i think that drugs should be legal.

No I was dealing with an addict who wanted what I had. Legalizing addictive drugs will lead to more people taking the drug which will lead to more addicts. Some addicts don't care where the drug is sold, they will do whatever it takes to get it. The more people who become addicted the more people who will become that kind of addict.

 

[hypnagogue]

Good thing marijauna isn't physically addictive then.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by tribdog
No I was dealing with an addict who wanted what I had. Legalizing addictive drugs will lead to more people taking the drug which will lead to more addicts. Some addicts don't care where the drug is sold, they will do whatever it takes to get it. The more people who become addicted the more people who will become that kind of addict.

So, clearly, you are FOR criminalizing Both, Alcohol and cigarettes, right?

 

[tribdog]

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
So, clearly, you are FOR criminalizing Both, Alcohol and cigarettes, right?

Actually Ì was àrguing against the legalization of drugs not the criminalization of anything, there is a difference. And don't tell me that alcohol and nicotine are drugs too. That's the argument of someone who just doesn't understand how some people handle addiction. I've never met someone offering blow jobs for a pack of Marlboros.
I'm one of the most apathetic people around and I really don't care if they legalize drugs, or criminalize alcohol and cigarettes, I just think it is a bad idea to do either.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Your statement:

Originally posted by tribdog
(SNIP)"...Legalizing addictive drugs..." (SNoP)

is clearly then misleading, as for the rest of your last post...

Originally posted by tribdog
Actually Ì was àrguing against the legalization of drugs not the criminalization of anything, there is a difference. Not really anti-legalization = Status quo = criminal! And don't tell me that alcohol and nicotine are drugs too. Why not? they are! That's the argument of someone who just doesn't understand how some people handle addiction. Funny, by Gods Grace I have successfully quit BOTH alcohol and DRUGS, and your gonna tell me about it, right? I've never met someone offering blow jobs for a pack of Marlboros. Obviously you just don't get around enough, really obvious considering my present living arrangements...
I'm one of the most apathetic people around and I really don't care if they legalize drugs, or criminalize alcohol and cigarettes, I just think it is a bad idea to do either. So we shouldn't even attempt to talk about potential remedies, or situations, that can be arranged, that might actually help addicts to quit...let me put it this way...If you DO NOT CARE why the heck are you posting?

HUH?

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Another issue/apsect of the use of addictive substances is the very simple fact of it's "social" nature...all the drinkers know alcohol as a "Social Lubricant" due to it's ability to get shy people out of there shells, (NOT always what you want to do, especially under the influence of alcohol as sometimes what comes out is ... ) and the similar/same is somewhat true for Cannabis inasmuch as it is a 'socializer' by way of participation, gets you into the particiating group...it's actually/factually somewhat worse, with Cannabis, inasmuchas the criminality that is associated with it's possession, introduces the idea of it now being a "Criminal Conspiracy" in it's social bonding/binding use/ability..."In for a penny...in for a pound{?}")

In scientific studies it has been seen that Cannabis will induce 'specific brainwave pattern(s)' (in everyone) and this would easily lend credibility to the idea that it promotes/generates a "common harmonic" in the cranial system. All of the people you use with, will have this common harmonic, and will follow it's decay rates, at roughly the same rate as all of the rest of the (common/casual/group) users, given "common indulgence" timing, "group harmony" should be simpler to achieve, as there is a baseline brainwave that is mutually common amongst 'collusional/colluding' users...

So we would end up finding out that some got hooked/addicted simply because of things like 'social' shyness, social ineptitude, lack of social (interactivety) training and resultant skillset(s), as the drug simply facilitated there 'entrance into a (social) group', something that they probably couldn't have, successfully, done, otherwise...

So we would end up jailing an addict, because they needed an "assistant" to help them make (new) friends...WOW!