Embracing Cultural Diversity: A Celebration of Global Connections

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Adrian Baker
Zoobyshoe says that 'the reason Chinese are better at maths is cultural'. Maybe, but maybe not. How can you say that this is the case without any supporting statement or evidence?

In support of my statement I offered the contrasting story of how math skills arenot valued in the home setting in modern American culture. Now, I'm not sure but are you asking me to offer evidence that math is regarded as a basic life skill in Chinese culture? Or do you want me to prove that the fact this is so is purely cultural and not genetic? Are you asking me to prove that Chinese do not have a special "math gene"? Occam's razor relieves me of that burden because a known quantity, in this case Cultural values, fully accounts for Chinese excellence in math. If you disagree with that the burden of proving they have a math gene we don't have is on you. In general I would have to agree with you that there are, at some level, some kind of differences between races, but I think if you strip away the cultural overlay, any actual differences are unimportant.

What seems to be bothering you is a "politically correct" avoidance of noticing that a given race seems to exhibit a noticable characteristic that might be considered negative. Is that a fair assessment of your complaint?

As for my initial

 

[Monique]

I really don't understand why race and genetics keeps coming up in a cultural discussion..

 

[zoobyshoe]

Monique,
Here is what I meant when I said I thought you misread Zero's post:

Zero said:

Originally posted by Zero I wonder if, at your school, some kids who aren't Chinese avoid advanced math because they subconsciously think that it is a "Chinese" thing?

To which you responded:

Originally posted by Monique About your example, yes Chineze looking person might avoid going into maths, but what is the reason? Not being proud of Chineze culture.

Zero never said a Chinese looking person might avoid going into math. He said a non-Chinese person might avoid it thinking it was a "Chinese" thing.

 

[Loren Booda]

The Washington DC area, like several others in the US, is truly a melting pot. After a couple of generations, kids in third grade serve as interpreters for their parents even in such matters as securing a loan.

Last night a beautiful woman helped me and a friend find a classroom. At first I thought her ethnicity Middle Eastern. Later I saw African characteristics in her. Most of all, she appeared a gracious American, a rare gem indeed.

It is terrible irony that the US is a target by those most intolerant of any diversity. Racism is about those (sexually) threatened by the beauty of exotic races they would deny. I think everyone has thought racist things, but some of us have benefited from the gentle yet firm insistence from friends of difference.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Monique
I really don't understand why race and genetics keeps coming up in a cultural discussion..

I agree. I guess your topic uncovered the fact that some people aren't seeing the distinction.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Loren Booda Racism is about those (sexually) threatened by the beauty of exotic races they would deny.

I do not know what this sentence means. They would deny...what?

I think racism is purely cultural. It is taught from one generation to the next. Reasons given for it differ, and I don't think you can boil all racism down to being threatened by something more beautiful than your own culture. People can buy into any plausible reason for racism and get really worked up about whatever reason they buy into. The reasons are interchangable. I guess the most fundamental dynamic I can see is the fact it is possible for people to acquire and maintain an unnecessarily defensive posture toward anything. Some people are phobic about walking on lawns.

 

[Mattius_]

Hmm, i recall a tribe of people with over 80% rate of diabetes within their own population. The calorie intake within each family was moderately low in comparison to the rate of diabetes...

is the way the metabolism works cultural?

hell no.

proof there that genetics do have something, and sometimes, a lot to do with ability human ability.

Could the fact that this tribe having a high diabetes rate help and hinder other parts of their lives? OFCOURSE.

I don't think i have to name any here, because my point has been validated, but i hope this does help some of you more media vulnreable people accept the fact that some races are better in certain areas and are worse in others.

Cmon now don't be silly.

Now, i will revert to my initial post when i said that any recognition of differentiation within a race is racist, and thus, mandatory.

 

[Monique]

Well, I have studied DNA from the Finnish population and have read quite a lot of their population genetics.. populations DO differ and researchers are using these populations as TOOLS for understanding genetics.

In the Finnish population, for instance, there are about 50 very rare recessive diseases very prevalent, by studying this population researchers found out the genes.. such a study would have been difficult in say a culturally diverse population such as in the States.

That doesn't mean though that the Finnish population is genetically inferior, in fact, other very common diseases such as Cystic Fibrosis almost don't exist in Finland.

As some people might know, last summer I went to Italy and attended a conference on "Genetics of Complex Diseases and Isolated Populations" are all these scientists racist, are they designing diseases to whipe out certain populations? I think they are just tapping resources in order to gain knowledge into human genetics.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Mattius_
Hmm, i recall a tribe of people with over 80% rate of diabetes within their own population. The calorie intake within each family was moderately low in comparison to the rate of diabetes...

is the way the metabolism works cultural?

hell no.

This is one sketchy anecdote. I would like to know exactly what their low calorie diet consisted of before jumping to any conclusions. There is a small band of Indians in the southwest who all had a chronic health problem (can't remember what) which was traced to their diet. I believe they had lived for centuries on bread made from nutritious natural grains. The problems arose when they began using commercially processed flour for all the same foods.

proof there that genetics do have something, and sometimes, a lot to do with ability human ability.

A better example of the point you're trying to make would be the very high incidence of colorblindness in the native peoples of the micronesian island of Ponape. Check out The Island Of The Colorblind by Oliver Sacks

I don't think i have to name any here, because my point has been validated, but i hope this does help some of you more media vulnreable people accept the fact that some races are better in certain areas and are worse in others.

If you are going to think along these lines you have a much more pressing issue to deal with than genetic differences between races. Did you know that women have 20% more connective lines between the two halves of the brain than men? It has been proven with pet scans that women can process many kinds of sensory imput both faster than men, and using less brain brain power to do it by virtue of this greater communications capacity of the female corpus callosum. Whatever physical differences there may be between races pales in comparison to the differences between the sexes.

 

[Adrian Baker]

Zoobyshoe asked:

What seems to be bothering you is a "politically correct" avoidance of noticing that a given race seems to exhibit a noticable characteristic that might be considered negative. Is that a fair assessment of your complaint?



In plain terms YES, except I didn't at all mention things being 'negative'. If someone is better at something than me for whatever reason, I don't feel 'inferior' as I'm no doubt better than them at something.

Anyway, you've gone and opened another can or worms now, talking about women's brains...

I'm getting out of here.....

 

[Zantra]

Originally posted by Monique
Eh, cool, you live in the Detroit area? Yes, I've been to all those places.. the dome screen is really nice, have you been to a 3D movie at Henry Ford? That is SO cool, the screen is HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE! Have you been to the renewed science center? Its much better than before. I lived right on the edge of the cultural center, walking over to the DIA took me 5 minutes..

Ya I grew up in Dearborn, though I'm not there anymore. Actually I went to the Henry Ford screen to see the star wars movie just before I left for California. And I also saw the first move they showed (fantasia 2000). I probably didn't get to the science center after it was renewed- it had been a while since I'd been there. But I remember seeing a lot of the movies there. The first time I went, I actually got vertigo . But it was really cool

 

[Zantra]

Originally posted by Monique
I really don't understand why race and genetics keeps coming up in a cultural discussion..

Because some people are are as fanatical about politcal correctness as KKK'ers are about racism. I liken them to pro lifer who kill people in the name of abortion, and try and justifiy it by referencing the bible. There's such a thing as taking ANY ideal too far.

 

[Adrian Baker]

Originally posted by Zantra
Because some people are are as fanatical about politcal correctness as KKK'ers are about racism. I liken them to pro lifer who kill people in the name of abortion, and try and justifiy it by referencing the bible. There's such a thing as taking ANY ideal too far.

Too right - people like this should be lined up against a wall and shot!

(In the name of freedom of course)

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Adrian Baker
In plain terms YES, except I didn't at all mention things being 'negative'. If someone is better at something than me for whatever reason, I don't feel 'inferior' as I'm no doubt better than them at something.

To the extent you can handle what you percieve to be "racial" differences without drawing extreme conclusions I don't suppose anyone would get too worked up. The fact is that there are dangerous people in the world who don't view what they percieve to be "racial" differences so nonchalantly. If "political correctness" seems to be unrealistically undifferentiating, you have to remember it serves as a discouragement to people who easily fall into believing in apartheid , "ethnic cleansing", and foreign forced labor (i.e. slaves).

Anyway, you've gone and opened another can or worms now, talking about women's brains...

Hey, you didn't let me finish. They're the rabbit, we're the tortoise.

 

[hypnagogue]

Monique, Amelie is great. And Audrey Tautou has the most huge gorgeous eyes ever (next to my girlfriend, of course ). She was also in another interesting French movie translated as Happenstance, although literally translated it is "The Beating of the Butterfly's Wings"-- goes into ideas of chaos, chance, fate, random strings of causation etc.

Hm... I also liked Amores Perros a lot. I know there's more good foreign ones but none that I can think of right now that really stand out.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Originally posted by Monique
I would like to know if there are people here who enjoy other cultures as much as me.. I have personally known people directly from the following countries:

Bulgaria, Croatia, Canada, Zimbabwe, South-Africa, Finland, Japan, China, South-Korea, India, Romania, Australia, Taiwan, Germany, Bangladesh, Brazil, Russia, Armenia, Iran, France, Pakistan, Italy, Poland, United States, Lithuania, Belgium, Great Britain, Ireland, Spain.

I am lucky enough to say that most of them I have gotten to know well enough to call them my friends. Every week, for about two years, I used to go to the Institute of Arts Film Theater, and have seen films from about the same number of countries as listed above. Besides that, I have also enjoyed the cultural cuisines of a dozen countries, going exotic such as internal organs and chicken paws.

Anyone a word on this?

*edit* let's not talk about racism, cultural diversity should be cherished, right?

A related story:

Tales from Japan

IF you've never visited the Land of the Rising Sun, you probably believe what the guide books say, that the Japanese are a stoic and outrageously straight-laced bunch. And they can be.

But beneath the kimonos and ubiquitous three-piece suits, lies a wild and wacky sense of humour that could only belong to the race that invented the self-warming toilet seat and a walking machine for overweight pets.

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,7527113%255E11869,00.html

 

[Zantra]

I've had solpis- it's a coconut-like drink- tasty.

 

[sage]

Originally posted by Monique
Btw, I have also taken an interest in music sung in foreign languages, this one being my favorite, known by heart. The one knowing the language in which it is sung, may speak up and sing aloud

YOu KNOW HINDI MONIQUE? your zeal to interact with other cultures and thoughts is praiseworthy indeed. alas if everyone were as sensitive and tolerant towards people of other cultures this world would have been a much better place. and yes, indians in general are very pious; that is their greatest strength as well as their greatest weakness. most indian movies today are extremely silly. but see mr. and mrs. Iyyer for a really good one. there are a few others, but mostly non-english.you can read poems too, those of rabindranath are heavenly-but i am not to sure if their beuty survives after an english translation, you'll be the judge of that.

 

[Monique]

Hi Sage, I too think sensitivity and tolerance would make the world a better place. Recognizing difference should lead to a deeper understanding, rather than division. In the Netherlands we have got so many people from arabic countries, the division is great with the western world and conficts arise due to misunderstanding and miscommunication. If people were more interested in cultural backgrounds and would start a conversation with the local arabic grocery store owner, rather than shy away from what is not their own, integration would be greatly facilitated.

Languages are not my best asset, unfortunately, it's a shame since learning dutch, english, german and french is mandatory in high school. I am fluent in Dutch and English, rusty in the others. But yes, I have seen many Hindi movies (Hum dil de chuke sanam, Devdas, Main prem ki diwani hoon, Mujhse dosti karoge, Khabhi khushi kabhie gham, Company, American Desi, to name a few) so I know the basic lingo :) Namaste, aap kaise hai? Is a good starter for instance :P

I'll try and look up that poeter you mentioned.

 

[Zero]

I am only excellent with different languages...I relate better on a musical standpoint, simply because I think mostly in symbols and music.

 

[Zantra]

I'm jack of all languages, master of none. I wish I had the time and commitment to learn more, but it tends to be very time consuming, and you forget so much if you don't practice regularly. I always confuse dutch and swedish, because they look so similar.

One of these days, I'd love to visit amsterdamn and see the pissing boy

 

[Monique]

Well, you will find a lot of pissing boys in Amsterdam, but I guess most people go to Brussels for that..

It is funny that you say Dutch and Swedish are very similar, I once met a group of Swedish people and they were telling me that there are a lot of Dutch students in Sweden (something I was and am totally unaware of). They also said that Dutch people taking Swedish classes is no fair, they get it after two lessons.. I guess it is time for me to go to Sweden and check it out myself

 

[Zantra]

Originally posted by Monique
Well, you will find a lot of pissing boys in Amsterdam, but I guess most people go to Brussels for that..

It is funny that you say Dutch and Swedish are very similar, I once met a group of Swedish people and they were telling me that there are a lot of Dutch students in Sweden (something I was and am totally unaware of). They also said that Dutch people taking Swedish classes is no fair, they get it after two lessons.. I guess it is time for me to go to Sweden and check it out myself

oops. my bad. I guess the pissing boy of amsterdam isn't quite as famous

 

[Monique]

haha.

I've got a story btw, people might be suprised.. its kinda sad though :( It was last summer when I was flying from Amsterdam back to Detroit, I was sitting next to a young, 18 year old, American girl and she was totally bummed out. I asked her her story. She told me she is a language freak (she did look kinda freaky) and that she absolutely loved English language and that Hindi was her passion too. Not anymore though, she said. It turned out she had arranged to volunteer teaching young schoolchildren English in Bombay. I mean, Bombay is halfway around the world! It must take like 20 hours flying there, probably longer with the layovers. So I was impressed, such a young girl from the States going to a place I imagine can be very chaotic for a Westerner. Well, she continued. She probably spent 30 minutes on Indian grounds before she was deported from the country.. apparently no one had told her that a visa would be needed. Can you imaging? Spending like $2000 on a ticket, flying 20 hours, full ambition, being sent back another 20 hours, loosing your ambition and coming home. All of a sudden my story didn't seem that important anymore :P

 

[Milo Hobgoblin]

"*edit* let's not talk about racism, cultural diversity should be cherished, right?"

No. Generally speaking homogenous cultures have much lower crime rates, much lower rates of competition for resources and are generally much more pleasant.

Its great to enjoy them.. visit them.. whatever. But for the most part.. they just don't mix well and never will. Humans will always defend their own.. self, family, tribe.

Denying that .. denies one of the basic premises of a board founded on science.

Of course the politically correct will deny this.. go on about how diversity enriches life, the hard working immigrants. These are the same people who don't live in diverse neighborhoods.. they visit them when they want "diversity".. but they segregate themselves form the unsavory side effects.

The reality is.. without government intereference.. cultural diversity has never worked when left to its own devices.

 

[scorpa]

Hmmm seems I have totally missed the boat on this thread but I will chime in now. I haven't had time to read all of it yet but anyway I also love culture. I love reading and learning about it. I had a teacher in high school that has been all over the world, and when he goes he doesn't stay in fancy resorts he is more likely to sleep at the side of a road somewhere haha, but anyway he used to show us the coolest pictures and tell the best stories of everything he has experienced. One day when I have more time I would love to learn Russian and go there, I just hope one day I have a job where I can afford to travel the world.