Change in Entropy for Irreversible Processes

AI Thread Summary
The discussion revolves around a misunderstanding of the application of the first law of thermodynamics to irreversible processes. The user mistakenly concludes that dq = TdS for all processes, including irreversible ones, based on their derivation. They correctly identify that for adiabatic processes, dq equals zero, but fail to account for the additional entropy generation in irreversible processes. The key error lies in not recognizing that the relationship dq = TdS only holds for reversible processes, as irreversible processes involve greater entropy changes. The user seeks clarification on where their proof goes wrong and how to properly incorporate irreversibility into their calculations.
nayanm
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I was following along in my Thermodynamic textbook and began playing with some definitions. In the following formulation, I somehow managed to prove (obviously incorrectly) that dq = TdS for even irreversible processes. I was hoping someone could point out where in the proof I'm going wrong.

First, consider a both reversible and adiabatic process.

Since dw = -p_{ext}dV for all processes and dq = 0 for adiabatic processes: dU = -p_{ext}dV

We also know for a reversible and adiabatic process, U is a function of V only and not S, so: dU = \frac{∂U}{∂V}dV

Setting the coefficients equal: \frac{∂U}{∂V}=-p_{ext}

This equation involves only state variables and is therefore valid for all process, reversible or irreversible.Next consider a general process (either reversible or irreversible).

As before dw = -p_{ext}dV but now U is a function of S and V, so: dq = dU - dw = (\frac{∂U}{∂S}dS + \frac{∂U}{∂V}dV) - (-p_{ext}dV)

Simplifying: dq = \frac{∂U}{∂S}dS + \frac{∂U}{∂V}dV + p_{ext}dV

Finally, since we know \frac{∂U}{∂V}=-p_{ext}, the last two terms cancel, leaving: dq = \frac{∂U}{∂S}dS = TdS for any processes, reversible or irreversible.

But clearly, this is not true since dq >TdS for irreversible processes.

At which point, then, should I have needed to invoke irreversibility?

Thank you in advance.
 
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