Classical and Spanish Guitar Performances

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The discussion centers around a comparison between classical guitar music and electronic genres like techno. Participants share various links to classical guitar performances, expressing appreciation for artists such as Li Jie and highlighting the beauty and skill involved in classical music. The conversation shifts to a debate about the artistic merit of electronic music, with some arguing that it lacks the depth and talent required for classical compositions. Others counter that electronic music is a legitimate art form, capable of complexity and innovation, and should not be dismissed. The debate touches on the evolution of music, the role of technology in composition, and the subjective nature of musical taste. Ultimately, there is a division between those who uphold classical music as the pinnacle of artistic achievement and those who advocate for the recognition of electronic music's creative potential.
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Since that damn thread popped back up, here is some real guitar

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6235991051852963406&q=classical+guitar -vals3

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1994835504362469704&q=classical+guitar -paganini

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8544471440432493&q=classic+guitar&hl=en -Debussy

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8616337967427479007&q=classic+guitar&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3098861182079928511&q=classic+guitar&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5045565399395951252&q=spanish+guitar&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3700234502567725896&q=spanish+guitar&hl=en

Ahhhhhhhh, much better...my ears have stopped bleeding.

Peaceful...real tallent.
 
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That is nice! Thanks for the links!
I really like the light touch of Li Jie. She is excellent.
 
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1042434893406997227&q=classical+guitar&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6906286431995963661&q=classical+guitar&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6144499437268125484&q=classical+guitar&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3623764892953734723&q=classical+guitar&hl=en
 
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This one gets its own post...uninterrupted

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2888398428915007745&q=classical+guitar&hl=en

Absolute beauty...
 
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This one stands alone as well...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1753032498515536736&q=classical+guitar&hl=en
 
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Arg, and this

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2064443199354089408&q=classical+guitar&hl=en
 
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8322663395004172787&q=classical+guitar&hl=en

A master at work.
 
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cyrusabdollahi said:
This one gets its own post...uninterrupted

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2888398428915007745&q=classical+guitar&hl=en

Absolute beauty...

There is an astronomer who comes on PBS and gives tips on viewing the night sky. He uses a version of this song as his theme song.

edit:
OOps that is not it. The show is called the Star Gazer, the guy is Jack Horkeimer (sp)
[MEDIA=youtube]ncV47leWBio[/MEDIA][/URL]

Opps and that isn't a guitar.
 
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What happened to electric?
 
  • #10
Mk said:
What happened to electric?

Get lost.

<text text text>
 
  • #11
Makes a few mistakes, but still nice piece

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2139990345925441424&q=augustin+barrios+mangore

better...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5742427513044765472&q=mangore
 
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  • #13
Some of the classics from the early 1970's were pretty good. This one is a guitar duet, one 6 string, one 12 string, with special tuning, the end result is pretty nice:

http://members.cox.net/savefiles/guinnevere.mp3

A video from a live performance, but not quite as good:

[MEDIA=youtube]mTGxNuRuJwo[/MEDIA][/URL][/b]
 
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  • #14
Mk said:
Now this is real guitar. Can anything ever be better than this solo?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZoFOkZS8OE8

Thanks for posting crap. You should get lashes for that...seriously, that SUCKS...why do we let you live again?...:devil:
 
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  • #15
bah who needs a guitar, how last century

[MEDIA=youtube]UXGpVcYnIsA[/MEDIA]&mode=related&search=[/URL]

techno techno techno tekno give me a tr-808, tr-909 and 303 anyday :-p

1 day we will look back at this type of music like we do to some of the great artists of years gone by :approve: ...
 
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  • #16
No, we wont.
 
  • #17
We as in the "Royal" we, ie you, perhaps.
But *we* as in the collective we, will...
 
  • #18
Nope.

Techno takes ZERO music talent compared to Classical...

classical music will/already has stood the test of time, crapno will be a bygone.
 
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  • #19
cyrusabdollahi said:
Nope.

Techno takes ZERO music talent compared to Classical...

classical music will/already has stood the test of time, crapno will be a bygone.

LOL :smile: :smile: :smile:

You almost just stood in the bear trap.

Why does it take zero talent? What gives *you* the ability to criticize it, are you an artist? Have you even tried to create some electronic music? If so please share.

Artists like Aphex Twin, Mike Oldfield, Vangelis Papathanassiou, Squarepusher: All push the boundaries of music, the compositions are extremely refined and complex. Especially Vangelis as he is influenced by Bozaka (The most complex musical style there is!). These people are musical genius as much as the classical composers were. Your Argument "classical music has stood the test of time" is mute, since the music I am talking about is cutting edge, and new. Its all a matter of opinion, its pointless getting into a "your music is rubbish" argument, as its a matter of perception. Either you like it or you dont, your "techno takes zero talent" is a fallacy, and is wrong, but more to the point is irelevent to the whether someone enjoys the sounds or not!
 
  • #20
Why does it take zero talent? What gives *you* the ability to criticize it, are you an artist? Have you even tried to create some electronic music? If so please share.

I give myself the ability. You got to problem with that?

These people are musical genius as much as the classical composers were.

No, WRONG...


Argument "classical music has stood the test of time" is mute, since the music I am talking about is cutting edge, and new.

No...WRONG. Modern music takes a lot from classical music. More than you may realize.


Its all a matter of opinion

Yep, and yours is WRONG.

Either you like it or you dont, your "techno takes zero talent" is a fallacy, and is wrong, but more to the point is irelevent to the whether someone enjoys the sounds or not!

John Mclaughlin, take it away...


WRONG!
 
  • #21
Wrong... Wrong... Wrong... Wrong... Good argument cyrusabdollahi :rolleyes:
 
  • #22
Anttech said:
Wrong... Wrong... Wrong... Wrong... Good argument cyrusabdollahi :rolleyes:

My pleasure.
 
  • #23
Unsubscribe
 
  • #24
Good RIDDANCE! Take your techno and get out!

This is for people with a finer taste, like Larskpur, and Marlon...
 
  • #25
paganini rules... but so do Iron Maiden, Jimi Hendrix, Pink Floyd, and Stevie Ray Vaughn.

I've actually started to like the piano more than the guitar though to tell you the truth.

edit: and I have to interject the cyrus is right. Classical music is at the root of just about anything you listen too. We still use the 12 note per octave system, with generally 7 tones that we select for a scale, that have a fundamental, a dominant, and a sub-dominant as the major movers of the pieces.

Seriously, unless you listen to japanese, indian, or tribal music, It's probably classically based. Even spanish, egyptian, italian, and french music (to name just a few) are just based of different modes of classical scales.

Blues/Rock is a simplification of the classical scales (retaining the fundamental, dominant, and sub-dominant) called pentatonics (the blues scale actually has an extra note, but it's almost always bent over and around or stepped across, and not used at the start of a measure)

On another note, plenty of bands nowadays mix tribal music, but you probably wouldn't be able to pallate something that's not classicaly based unless you're a musician or a condeneseur of world music.
 
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  • #26
With pleasure, there's nothing I hate more than a brash adolescent who *thinks* his tastes are "refined"

Enjoy your thread
 
  • #27
:smile: Techno, your are saying TECHNO is up there with classical...NO WAY...

I would like to see techno write a piece for 40+ people who have to play in perfect step with one another and not use a computer to do it for them.

Why are there no famous schools of techno?

The Paris school of techno, I think not.

Mozart and the like, they are one of a kind. They are giants like Newton... Don't kid yourself!

We still listen to classcial music 250 years later. It's mainstream to our culture...don't believe me, listen to every soundtrack on every movie, every commercial, every song. Its' all derived from classical in one form or another.

It's going to be gone, like ragtime. You will see.
 
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  • #28
cyrusabdollahi said:
:smile: Techno, your are saying TECHNO is up there with classical...NO WAY...

I would like to see techno write a piece for 40+ people who have to play in perfect step with one another and not use a computer to do it for them.

Why are there no famous schools of techno?

The Paris school of techno, I think not.

Mozart and the like, they are one of a kind. They are giants like Newton... Don't kid yourself!

Nice strawman... Explain to me where I asserted "Techno is up there with classical"

cyrusabdollahi there is no point in having a discussion regarding this with *you* because judging by your very brash one liners so far you are not able to.

So tell me then, or attempt to tell me without reverting back to baby talk, how does one classify an "up there" style of music? via the amount of people you need to perform the piece? Is that the gauge of "musical upness?"

Well if it is:

http://www.elsew.com/data/bninterv.htm

I tend to think that it has nothing to do with it. Electronic Music is just as much an "artform" as any classic piece, I am not asserting that its predecessor wasnt "classical." I am asserting that is equal as an art-form. In fact some established artists assert that it is in fact more difficult to manipulate machines to make music than it is classical instruments. I am not talking about easy listening music, but hybrid Jazz and electro sounds, for example Squarepusher, show me a classical piece that is able to invert the use of drums and the rhythm?

No one type of Music is *better* than another, until you define what it is that makes it better. I find it hard to accept that the greatness of a sound is in direct relation to the amount of people it takes to play that sound.
 
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  • #29
Simple, you have to study for years and years to become a master in classcial music, if your lucky to be that good.

What does it take to make a techno album, a computer and a little imagination?

PAHLEAZE...
 
  • #30
cyrusabdollahi said:
Simple, you have to study for years and years to become a master in classcial music, if your lucky to be that good.

What does it take to make a techno album, a computer and a little imagination?

PAHLEAZE...

Once again you have shown your ignorance of electronic music.

So now you have shifted the goal posts, (once again) to assert that the relationship between a musical style and its greatness is in how long it takes to study to master? :rolleyes:

Make your mind up please

If this is indeed what you are now asserting, it only took Mozart till he was 5 years old. Cant of been that difficult could it?
 
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  • #31
So tell me, why are there no world famous schools of techno?

Face it, classical music is the esablished canon.
 
  • #32
There are many *schools* and teachers teaching how to use machines to make music, ask anyone who is studying music and they will tell you!

There probably isn't any world famous schools because people have not been using them for eons to make music. Computers have really only been accessible for the masses for at tops 15 years. Its as I have already stated a new artform. When Picaso was first making extraordinary masterpieces of abstract art there went any *world famous schools* teaching abstract art were there?

There is also no relationship between the quality of a music style and the amount of "world famous schools"
 
  • #33
Face it, classical music is the esablished canon.

I certainly am not going to take your word for it, since you are unable to even form a decent argument as to why it is.
 
  • #34
These people are musical genius as much as the classical composers were.

Noooooooooooo way. You are comparing people like mozart, to stuff like this:

[MEDIA=youtube]UXGpVcYnIsA[/MEDIA]&mode=related&search=[/URL]

?



Here is some real music...

[PLAIN]http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?ei=UTF-8&p=bach&b=9&oid=54349377e52d8a2a&rurl=www.bsu.edu&vdone=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fvideo%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26p%3Dbach

http://www.maggini.org/video/mozart_1.mov
 
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  • #35
That was a dig at your Guitar nonsence. If you looked at the list I cited:

Aphex Twin (who was composing and being published at 12!)
Mike Oldfield
Vangelis Papathanassiou,
Squarepusher:

No doubt you don't even know who these people are, but anyway. That was DJ Ronaldo from Underground resistance a Techno dance music outfit from Detroit. And anyway the use of melody and drum beats is very cleverly done it that piece IMHO, and already many mainstream popular music pieces have sampled it. The message is in the medium on that one, but I don't expect you to get that..
 
  • #36
Here is quiet an "out there" idea of what it actualy consitutes to make music with machines:

http://www.warprecords.com/artists/news.php?offset=0&ti_id=789&filter=sqp

"Collaborating with machines" by Tom Jenkinson.

The old preconceptions of machines (ie: drum machines, samplers, software) as inhibitive to "genuine" creativity/ "soulless" etc. are now quickly evaporating. The machine facilitates creativity, yes, but a specific kind of creativity that has undermined the idea of a composer who is master of and indifferent to his tools - the machine has begun to participate. Any die-hard instumentalists that still struggle to retain their notion of human sovereignty are exemplifying a peculiarly (western) human stupidity - resistance to the inevitable. What is also clear, though certainly undesirable by any retaining an anthropocentric view of composition is that
this process proceeds regardless of any ideal point of human-machine collaboration (ie one where the human retains any degree of importance.) One might say that music is imploding in preparation for a time when there is no longer any need for it.

Tom Jenkinson. AKA Squarepusher

This guy is extremely established and is very well respect artist BTW
 
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  • #37
Here is some real music...

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?ei...F-8%26p%3Dbach

http://www.maggini.org/video/mozart_1.mov
Yeap its also very good
 
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  • #38
Look, despite my saying techno is crap...it's not all that bad :-p

Butttt, it is NOT at the level of classical music, nor will it ever be. I do not think anything will ever be at the classical music level, as nothing will ever be renaissance art. That was the peak. That's where you will find the "masters."
 
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  • #39
I've played classical guitar and piano as well as mixed an electronic album (both with MTV Music Generator and Reason)

I'd have to say that judging music quality by its genre is going to close a lot of doors to interesting musical ideas.

There are some musical configurations that are impossible to play (especially on a guitar, where you can only hit six notes at once) that you can express by assigning notes to a meter. Knowledge of musical mechanics is necisary unless you're just ripping off samples, but I've heard some ingenious techno music.

To defend classical music in the same post as I'm defending techno music, a computer simply cannot match the "soul" that goes into bends, vibratos, sticatto, and bowing techniques.
 
  • #40
I like Classical Music as well, I have over a gig of the stuff on my HD. However I disagree that it was the peak, it was a stepping stone albeit a very important one. Music is an Artform, continually being refined and experimented with, there is no good or bad music, there is just music. Some people like to listen to Drill and Bass extreme and almost maddening drum patterns, some people like to listen to mathematically beautiful melodies and some like the sound of natural ambiance.

There is nothing to gage the level of an artform apart from ones own perception
 
  • #41
More good stuff...


http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?ei=UTF-8&p=bach&b=45&oid=7cad3fbbd9c6739e&rurl=www.ducalemusic.it&vdone=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.yahoo.com%2Fvideo%2Fsearch%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26p%3Dbach%26b%3D41
 
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  • #42
To defend classical music in the same post as I'm defending techno music, a computer simply cannot match the "soul" that goes into bends, vibratos, sticatto, and bowing techniques.

Ahh but the soul is a projection of the artist not the tool he is using.

But... in the same breath it could be argued that the machine will not allow the artist to become soulful, the tool is to a degree bending the will of the wielder of the tool, the message is not only in the music but in the way it was conceived from the medium :wink:
 
  • #43
Electronic music is both despised and abused because of its shallow learning cruve. But this doesn't make it inferior in any way. Although a large percent is just "elevator music," there is some good stuff out there. For starters, look into Aphex twin, as Anttech has suggested. Richard D. James Album? Many friends of mine (of whom some are musicians) and I manage to listen to both; I think our generation is beginning to lose the myopia.

I think cyrus is reading too much into the sounds themselves instead of the rhythm, composition, and emotion.
 
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  • #44
I am listening to bach: brandenburg no.3...sorry guys. Techno does not come close to this, what skill! A computer can never imitate this.

Ahh but the soul is a projection of the artist not the tool he is using.

projection of the artist through his instrument. I disagree with that statement.
 
  • #45
there is some good stuff out there. For starters, look into Aphex twin, as Anttech has suggested.Richard D. James Album?
I have his discography apart from a couple of exceptions :) Richard D James album is a great one
 
  • #47
It says I am not 18, I can't view it :frown:
 
  • #48
Probably better anyway :)
 
  • #50
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8462728218872931196&q=paganini&hl=en

Damn woman...the ladies are kicking ass on paganini.

Ok, time to change woman to women...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3492230101909108216&q=paganini&hl=en
 
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