CO2 sublimation in a closed container

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of frozen CO2 in a sealed, incompressible container as it warms to room temperature. Participants explore the implications of sublimation, phase changes, and pressure conditions related to CO2's state transitions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that frozen CO2 would sublimate into a very compressed gas in a sealed container, questioning how to estimate the resulting pressure.
  • Another participant agrees with the idea of sublimation but introduces the concept of supercritical fluid, noting that conditions of temperature and volume could lead to this state.
  • A correction is made regarding the claim that gas cannot be compressed into a solid, with an example provided about CO2's triple point conditions.
  • A participant explains that to estimate the pressure for a supercritical fluid, one must match the appropriate density, providing specific pressure values for different densities of CO2 at room temperature.
  • A later reply seeks clarification on whether solid CO2 would remain solid under high internal pressure in the described scenario.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the ability to compress gas into a solid and the conditions under which CO2 might transition to a supercritical fluid. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact behavior of CO2 in the specified conditions.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the CO2 phase diagram and specific pressure values, but the discussion does not resolve the assumptions about the container's properties or the precise conditions leading to phase changes.

Jonhorde
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
A coworker posed a thought experiment; if you sealed a sample of frozen CO2 in an uncompressable container of identical volume and allowed it to warm to room temperature, how could it melt/evaporate, since there would be no room for the gas to expand
My guess is that it would sublimate to a very compressed gas, since, running the thought backwards, I know you can't compress a gas into a solid, (short of Neutron star pressures).
I see on the CO2 phase diagram a supercritical fluid at very high pressures, how could I estimate the pressure it would be under?
 
Science news on Phys.org
Jonhorde said:
My guess is that it would sublimate to a very compressed gas
This is (kind of) correct, depending on the temperature and volume of the container. If the temperature is large enough and the volume is small enough, it might become a supercritical fluid--a fluid that doesn't have sharp phase changes like boiling/condensation in standard liquids or gases--instead.
Jonhorde said:
since, running the thought backwards, I know you can't compress a gas into a solid, (short of Neutron star pressures).
This is not correct. It is absolutely possible to compress a gas to a solid. For example, in the case of CO2, the triple point is at 5.1 atm and -56.7°C. This means that if you cool CO2 gas to -56.7°C and then apply a pressure of 6 atmospheres, the gas will become a solid.
Jonhorde said:
I see on the CO2 phase diagram a supercritical fluid at very high pressures, how could I estimate the pressure it would be under?
You'll have a supercritical fluid any time you're above the critical temperature and pressure:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercritical_carbon_dioxide
 
Jonhorde said:
I see on the CO2 phase diagram a supercritical fluid at very high pressures, how could I estimate the pressure it would be under?
To estimate the pressure, you have to match the right density. A quick trip to Google says that the density of the solid state is in the neighborhood of 1.4 to 1.6 grams per cc. Another quick trip to Google finds an online calculator that says that you can get a density of 1.4 g/cc if you push the pressure up to 5000 bars and 1.5 g/cc at 8000 bars, both at room temperature.

http://www.energy.psu.edu/tools/CO2-EOS/index.php
 
Hmm, thank you.
Just to make sure I understand,
A sample of solid CO2 with no room to expand in an uncompressable container, wouldn't melt left at room temperature, but would remain solid with an internal pressure approaching 8000bar?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
5K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
10K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
Replies
49
Views
4K
Replies
20
Views
7K