Condensing water into an area?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of compressing liquid water in a chamber, exploring the physical implications and properties of water under extreme pressure. Participants consider theoretical scenarios, the nature of water as a fluid, and the limits of compression in a laboratory setting.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the effects of compressing water, with one suggesting that if a sufficiently strong chamber existed, interesting phenomena might occur.
  • Others clarify that liquid water is already condensed and is nearly incompressible, indicating that not much would happen under normal conditions.
  • A participant proposes that under extreme compression, water could reach states where electron degeneracy pressure and neutron degeneracy pressure become relevant, potentially leading to black hole formation, although this is beyond current technological capabilities.
  • One participant attempts to apply the ideal gas law to the situation, but another points out that this law does not apply to liquid water, emphasizing its incompressibility.
  • Discussion includes references to real-world applications of fluid incompressibility, such as hydraulic systems, to illustrate the concept.
  • There is mention of various phases of water ice, but participants express that these do not represent the "excitement" some were hoping for in the context of compression.
  • A theoretical claim is made about the existence of "metallic water" in the centers of gas giants, suggesting that extreme conditions could lead to unusual states of water.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that water is incompressible under normal conditions, but there are competing views regarding the implications of extreme compression and the theoretical states water could reach. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the potential phenomena that could occur under such conditions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on theoretical scenarios that may not be experimentally verifiable, as well as the assumptions surrounding the behavior of water under extreme conditions.

split
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What would happen if you were to take some liquid, let's say a half-gallon of water to make it easy to think about, and pour it into a small chamber, then condense it as much as possible? I'm talking about some extremely stable chamber that can withstand lots of pressure from the water being condensed.

I don't know if such a container could exist, but if it could, would anything neat happen if you were to smash it down enough?
 
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Liquid water, is, by definition, already condensed. The word 'condense' means to go from vapor phase to liquid phase.

Furthermore, water is (nearly) incompressible, so not much of interest would happen.

- Warren
 
Argh. I meant "compressed."

Is there any matter that exhibits interesting properties when greatly compressed?

Also, why can't water be compressed much further? It seems to me like anything could be compressed with the right force. Then again I'm not exactly a professional physicist. Maybe you (or someone) could explain it to me?
 
Well, at least in laboratory conditions, water is more or less incompressible. You could, in principle, compress it down until electron degeneracy pressure holds it up. Then you could compress it more, until the reverse beta decay turns the whole mess into a soup of neutrons supported by neutron degeneracy pressure. Then you could compress it more, and it would turn into a black hole.

We have nowhere near the technology that would be required to do those things in a laboratory though. Those processes happen inside stars.

- Warren
 
What would happen if you were to take some liquid, let's say a half-gallon of water to make it easy to think about, and pour it into a small chamber, then condense it as much as possible?

If you mean compress instead of condense, the following equation applies:

PV=nrT where P=presure
V=volume
n=number of moles
r=universal gas constant
T=Temperature in degrees K

When you decrease the volume of the chamber, one of two things will occur(if not both). The pressure on the walls of the chamber will increase(if temperature is held constant). The Temperature of the water will decrease(if the pressrue is held constant).

Water is a little weird. It is the only substance that I know of that increases in volume when frozen. I believe this is caused by hydrogen bonding.

To fully address your question, if you had a strong enough chamber and unlimited force, both volume and temp would approach 0.

Pan
 
Originally posted by Peter Pan

PV=nrT where P=presure
V=volume
n=number of moles
r=universal gas constant
T=Temperature in degrees K
Sorry Peter. That's the ideal gas law. Liquid water is about as far from an ideal gas as you could get. It doesn't apply, even vaguely.

- Warren
 
Most fluids are considered pretty much incompressible. Next time you walk by a construction side watch a Back hoe at work that is all done with hydraulics which are a real world application of the incompressibility of fluids. I work on clean room tools which use some hydraulics, instead of oil they use water.

The reason these tools are able to generate huge amounts of force is the incompressibility of the hydraulic fluid. If it where to change in volume under pressure hydraulic machines simply would not work.
 
Right, there are a lot of different kinds of water ice, some a little denser than others. I don't think that's the "excitement" that split was hoping for.

- Warren
 
  • #10
Originally posted by split
What would happen if you were to take some liquid, let's say a half-gallon of water to make it easy to think about, and pour it into a small chamber, then condense it as much as possible? I'm talking about some extremely stable chamber that can withstand lots of pressure from the water being condensed.

I don't know if such a container could exist, but if it could, would anything neat happen if you were to smash it down enough?

It would take almost unnimaginable force (so much that we haven't been able to verify this claim experimentaly, yet), but the center of one of the gass giant planets (Uranus, I believe) is thought to be water so compressed that the electrons are freed up to wander from molecule to molecule, forming a substance astronomers have dubbed "metalic water". It's a metal, but its molecular structure is H2O.
 

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