Convergence of random variables

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the convergence of random variables, exploring various aspects such as subsequences converging in probability, the implications of expected values, the uniqueness of moment generating functions versus characteristic functions, and the definitions of random variables in terms of boundedness. The scope includes theoretical questions and conceptual clarifications related to probability theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire why a subsequence of random variables converging in probability also converges in probability to the same limit.
  • There is confusion regarding the notation of random variables being finite or infinite, particularly in the context of Poisson and binomial distributions.
  • Participants question whether convergence of a specific subsequence implies convergence of the entire sequence almost surely.
  • Some argue that while moment generating functions (mgf) can determine distributions uniquely, they do not always exist, whereas characteristic functions do exist for all distributions.
  • Clarifications are sought on the necessity of using characteristic functions in proofs involving the sum of independent normal random variables.
  • There is a discussion about the convenience of using extended real numbers in calculus, particularly regarding infinite sums and integrals.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the definitions and implications of convergence and the properties of moment generating and characteristic functions. There is no consensus on the meaning of certain notations or the necessity of characteristic functions in specific proofs.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved definitions of random variables in terms of boundedness, and the implications of convergence in probability versus almost sure convergence. The discussion reflects a range of interpretations and assumptions that are not fully clarified.

kingwinner
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I was reading some proofs about the convergence of random variables, and here are the little bits that I couldn't figure out...

1) Let Xn be a sequence of random variables, and let Xnk be a subsequence of it. If Xn conveges in probability to X, then Xnk also conveges in probability to X. WHY?

2) I was looking at a theorem: if E(Y)<∞, then Y<∞ almost surely. Now I am puzzled by the notation. What does it MEAN to say that Y=∞ or Y<∞?
For example, if Y is a Poisson random variable, then the possible values are 0,1,2,..., (there is no upper bound). Is it true to say that Y=∞ in this case?

3) If Xn4 converges to 0 almost surely, then is it true to say that Xn also converges to 0 almost surely? Why or why not?

4) The moment generating function(mgf) determines the distribution uniquely, so we can use mgf to find the distributions of random varibles. If the mgf already does the job, what is the point of introducing the "characteristic function"?

Can someone please explain?
Any help is much appreciated! :)
 
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I can answer the first one. Xn converges to X by definition if for all epsilon > 0,
Pr(|Xn-X|>epsilon) converges to 0. Suppose Xn converges to X in probability. Let Xnk be a subsequence. Then for any epsilon>0, Pr(|Xnk-X|>epsilon) is a subsequence of Pr(|Xn-X|>epsilon) (these are sequences of numbers). Since we know that a subsequence of a convergent sequence of numbers converges to the limit of the original sequence, it follows that Pr(|Xnk-X|>epsilon) converges to 0. So Xnk converges in probability to X.
 
kingwinner said:
I was reading some proofs about the convergence of random variables, and here are the little bits that I couldn't figure out...

1) Let Xn be a sequence of random variables, and let Xnk be a subsequence of it. If Xn conveges in probability to X, then Xnk also conveges in probability to X. WHY?

2) I was looking at a theorem: if E(Y)<∞, then Y<∞ almost surely. Now I am puzzled by the notation. What does it MEAN to say that Y=∞ or Y<∞?
For example, if Y is a Poisson random variable, then the possible values are 0,1,2,..., (there is no upper bound). Is it true to say that Y=∞ in this case?

3) If Xn4 converges to 0 almost surely, then is it true to say that Xn also converges to 0 almost surely? Why or why not?

4) The moment generating function(mgf) determines the distribution uniquely, so we can use mgf to find the distributions of random varibles. If the mgf already does the job, what is the point of introducing the "characteristic function"?

Can someone please explain?
Any help is much appreciated! :)

1) This would be a generalization of convergence of subsequences of real numbers.

2) An example of this would be first exit times - consider a process that has a finite probability of never exiting (e.g. fly in a jar), so the first exit time can be infinite.

3) Not sure

4) No - mgf is not unique (e.g. lognormal distribution) and doesn't necessary exist (e.g. Pareto). The c.f. is useful because it always exists on the real axis (if the r.v. is a.s. finite) and acts like a Fourier transform.

Hope this helps
 
Thank you for the replies.

2) I don't get it. The theorem is talking about this: "if E(Y)<∞, then Y<∞ almost surely", but I don't even know what Y<∞ means...:(
For a Poisson random variable Y, the possible values are 0,1,2,..., and there is NO upper bound, so Y=∞ is possible? (same for exponential random variable, there is no upper bound.)
For a binomial random variable X, the possible values are 0,1,2,...,n, there is a upper bound, so Y<∞?
I am really confused. Can someone please explain more on this? What does it mean to say that Y<∞? (or Y=∞?)


4) So you mean the characterisitic function c(t) always exists for ALL real numbers t, is that right?
Also, for example, if we are asked to prove that the sum of 2 indepndent normal r.v.'s is again normal, then I think the proof using mgf is perfectly fine, but I see my textbook using characteristic function for this, is it absolutely necessary to use characteristic function in a proof like this?
 
"Also, for example, if we are asked to prove that the sum of 2 indepndent normal r.v.'s is again normal, then I think the proof using mgf is perfectly fine, but I see my textbook using characteristic function for this, is it absolutely necessary to use characteristic function in a proof like this?"

No, it isn't necessary.

Every probability distribution has a characteristic function, and that function is unique - it determines the distribution.

In order for a distribution to have a moment generating function, every moment has to exist - that is, you must have

<br /> \int x^n \,dF(x) &lt; \infty<br />

for all n. This isn't always true - consider

<br /> f(x) = \frac 1 {\pi (1+x^2)}<br />

which doesn't even have a mean.

If a distribution's moments identify the distribution exactly (say they satisfy Carleman's conditions) then the moment generating function is unique and identifies the distribution.

I'm guessing (and it's only a guess, since I don't know which probability text you're using) that the author(s) use the characteristic function approach to show the sum of two independent normals is normal because it is a relatively easy example to use to demonstrate the general procedure.
 
4) So while the moment generating function does not always exist in a neighborhood of 0, the "characterisitic function" ALWAYS exists for ALL real numbers t, is this right? (so that it is more general?)

2) Can you also explain the meaning of "Y<∞", please?
Is this about the difference of binomial random variables (which has an upper bound on the possible values), and Poisson (or exponential) random variables (which has no upper bound on the possible values)?
So that for binomial random variables Y, we can say that Y<∞, while for Poisson (or exponential) random variables X, we cannot say that X<∞?

Your help is much appreciated! :)
 
It is often more convenient to do calculus using the extended real numbers rather than the real numbers. The extended real numbers contain two extra points, called +\infty and -\infty.

Every infinite sum of nonnegative extended real numbers is convergent. For example:
1 + 1 + 1 + \cdots = +\infty​
A similar statement is true for definite integrals.
 
kingwinner said:
4) So while the moment generating function does not always exist in a neighborhood of 0, the "characterisitic function" ALWAYS exists for ALL real numbers t, is this right? (so that it is more general?)

2) Can you also explain the meaning of "Y<∞", please?
Is this about the difference of binomial random variables (which has an upper bound on the possible values), and Poisson (or exponential) random variables (which has no upper bound on the possible values)?
So that for binomial random variables Y, we can say that Y<∞, while for Poisson (or exponential) random variables X, we cannot say that X<∞?

Your help is much appreciated! :)

1) Correct - as I (and others) have noted, there are some distributions for which the moment generating function does not exist - distributions that fail to have moments from some order on. The reason this is a problem comes from the definition of the mgf and can be seen from the series expansion of the exponential function. For the real-valued case

<br /> \begin{align*}<br /> \phi_X(t) &amp; = \int_{\mathcal{R}} e^{tx} \, dF(x) \\<br /> &amp; = \int_{\mathcal{R}} \sum_{n=0}^\infty \frac{(tx)^n}{n!} \, dF(x)<br /> \end{align*}<br />

If the distribution does not have moments of all orders, eventually an integral involving x^n will diverge, and so the mgf does not exist.

2) The characteristic function exists for every distribution, for every real t, since

<br /> |\psi_X(t)| = \left|\int_{\mathcal{R}} e^{itx} \, dF(x)\right| \le \int_{\mathcal{R}} |e^{itx}| \, dF(x) = \int_{\mathcal{R}} dF(x) = 1<br />
 

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