Could a pipe from the ocean's depths create a fountain effect on the surface?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of using a pipe extending from the ocean's depths to the surface to create a fountain effect, drawing parallels to a "space straw" analogy. Participants explore the implications of pressure differences, fluid dynamics, and the mechanics of water movement in various configurations, including hypothetical designs involving vacuum and differing pipe diameters.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether a pipe from the ocean's depths could create a fountain effect due to pressure differences, similar to the "space straw" concept.
  • Another participant argues that the diameter of the pipe would not influence water movement significantly, suggesting that motion is constrained regardless of diameter.
  • Some participants discuss the relationship between pressure and gravity, noting that simply dropping a pipe into the ocean does not alter the equilibrium of forces involved.
  • A participant challenges the validity of the "space straw" analogy, questioning why it would work in that scenario but not in the ocean context.
  • There is a suggestion that water would only be pushed up a straw if the air is evacuated, with some ambiguity about the height to which water could rise.
  • One participant proposes a complex design involving two pipes of different diameters within a vacuum chamber, speculating on the behavior of water under these conditions.
  • Another participant critiques the idea, comparing it to a barometer and asserting that the proposed mechanism would not achieve the intended effect.
  • There is a mention of a hypothetical "space elevator" that could mimic perpetual motion by utilizing water buckets, though this is noted as not being true perpetual motion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanics of pressure and fluid dynamics, with no consensus reached on the validity of the "space straw" analogy or the proposed pipe configurations. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of pressure isolation for maintaining differences in pressure, and some express confusion over the implications of varying pipe diameters on water movement. There are unresolved assumptions regarding the mechanics of fluid dynamics in the proposed scenarios.

  • #31
Yes, but you have to suck again after each mouthful. I think he wants to make the water go outside, form the low pressure inside to the high pressure outside without changing the pressure inside.
 
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  • #32
nasu said:
Yes, but you have to suck again after each mouthful. I think he wants to make the water go outside, form the low pressure inside to the high pressure outside without changing the pressure inside.
Having sucked water through a straw myself, I know that it is perfectly possible to do so without ever letting the water drain out of the straw.

Edit: You are right, of course, that there is effort involved in re-inflating the mouth cavity to allow water to re-enter. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
 
  • #33
Yes, you can. But try to spit some water out without without ever letting the water drain out of the straw and without having to tension your diaphragm or inter-costal muscles to reduce again the pressure afterwards.:)

I think you mean to inflate your lungs. You don't inflate the mouth to suck water.
 
  • #34
I think this is getting a bit silly. The basics of energy conservation will always apply and making up some whacky scenario involving sucking and vacua does not alter that. It should be an exercise for the student to find the flaw in every argument that doesn't seem to involve energy conservation. It's little more than a waste of time for people who have already accepted the basic principles and proved it to themselves once or twice and found the secret source of energy in one or two of these aunt sallys.
 
  • #35
I think it's kinda simple , well here's my reasoning.
I think it is possible for a once established vacuum(vacuum , pumped out air and then the pumps disconnected) to keep on sucking up new water once the old has ran away from the top, the thing that would probably destroy this nice little scheme is what nasu and others here pointed out that in order for the water to escape the top to make way for new water keeping the same vacuum would imply not destroying the vacuum , but if one would make an opening in the enclousure higher surrounding pressure would inrush towards the vacuum and the column of water would collapse ,

using a pump to pump out the water from the column would probably work but then again the pump would have to use as much energy as it would use to get the water from the source up to that point anyways probably, the problem is I guess that the vacuum and water column is a satic situation and getting the water out from a low pressure area to a higher pressure area would basically mean " water climbing up a hill " work so there would need to be extra energy applied.
 
  • #36
Aren't we flogging this poor thing to death?
 

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