Covariant derivative and general relativity

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of covariant differentiation in the context of general relativity. Participants are exploring the properties of covariant derivatives, particularly how they relate to different types of tensors and scalar fields.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are questioning the implications of covariant differentiation on the character of the objects being differentiated, particularly regarding scalars and vectors. There is discussion about the nature of covariant derivatives of tensor fields and the relationship between different tensor types.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided definitions and examples to clarify the properties of covariant derivatives. There is an ongoing exploration of how these derivatives affect the types of tensors, with various interpretations being discussed. No explicit consensus has been reached, but productive dialogue is occurring.

Contextual Notes

Participants are referencing specific definitions and examples from lecture notes and external resources, indicating a reliance on existing material to frame their questions and reasoning. There is an acknowledgment of the complexity of the topic, particularly in distinguishing between different tensor types and their derivatives.

cristo
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I'm not really sure where to put this, so I thought it post it here!

I'm reading through my GR lecture notes, and have come across a comment that has confused me. I quote
Covariant differentiation does not change the character of the object being differentiated; viz, the covariant derivative of a vector is a vector, the covariant derivative of a scalar is a scalar

Now, I don't really see how this is true. For example, consider a scalar field f. The covariant derivative of this is
[tex]\nabla_af\equiv\partial_af=\frac{\partial f}{\partial x^a}[/tex]

But, aren't [itex]\partial_af[/itex] the components of a covector?
 
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I can only assume that they mean an isolated component of a covariant derivative eg [tex]\nabla_0f[/tex] is a scalar if f is scalar, vector if f is vector etc. Which would not be true for a partial derivative.
 
Thanks. So, I would be correct in saying that the covariant derivative of a type (r,s) tensor field is a type (r,s+1) tensor field, right?
 
You betcha! And each covariant component of the (r,s+1) field is an (r,s) field - as is always the case.
 
Last edited:
Cheers, Dick!
 
robphy said:
Cristo, what is the definition of "covariant differentiation" [in your notes]?
Note, e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covariant_derivative
and http://www.utsc.utoronto.ca/~harper/Redten/redten/node36.html

He defines the covariant derivative by setting up the situation of two vector fields u and v ona manifold. Then, picking some point P, u determines a flow line passing through P; parametrised by some path parameter s, such that [tex]\bold{u}_P=\left.\frac{d}{ds}\right|_{s=s_P}[/tex]
Suppose Q[itex]\neq[/itex]P is another point on the flowline corresponding to [itex]s_Q\neq s_P[/itex]. Then we write
[tex]\bold{v}(s_Q)\equiv\bold{v}_Q, \hspace{2cm} \tilde{\bold{v}}(s_Q)\equiv \tilde{\bold{v}}_{QP}[/tex] [he actually uses a symbol with two parallel lines over v, like one side of a "norm" sign-- anyway, it means the vector field parallely transported from P, evaluated at Q]
and define the covariant derivative as
[tex]\nabla_{\bold{u}}\bold{v}_P=\lim_{s_Q\rightarrow s_P}\frac{\tilde{\bold{v}}(s_Q)-\bold{v}(s_Q)}{s_Q-s_P}[/tex]
 
in that case, you are evaluating

[tex]u^a \nabla_a v^b[/tex], which is a vector.
Thus, with the above definition,
cristo said:
the covariant derivative of a vector is a vector
 
Ok, so would I be correct in thinking that whilst [tex]\nabla_{\bold{u}}v^b=u^a\nabla_av^b[/tex] is a vector, [tex]\nabla_bv^a[/tex] is a not a vector, but is a type (1,1) tensor?

I think this makes sense, since clearly u^a is a vector; if [tex]\nabla_bv^a[/tex] is a type (1,1) tensor, then the product of the two will be a vector.
 
  • #10
cristo said:
Ok, so would I be correct in thinking that whilst [tex]\nabla_{\bold{u}}v^b=u^a\nabla_av^b[/tex] is a vector, [tex]\nabla_bv^a[/tex] is a not a vector, but is a type (1,1) tensor?

I think this makes sense, since clearly u^a is a vector; if [tex]\nabla_bv^a[/tex] is a type (1,1) tensor, then the product of the two will be a vector.

Yes.
Of course, to do the "product", you'd do [tex](u^b) (\nabla_b v^a)= u^b\nabla_b v^a[/tex].
 
  • #11
robphy said:
Yes.
Of course, to do the "product", you'd do [tex](u^b) (\nabla_b v^a)= u^b\nabla_b v^a[/tex].
Yes. Thanks for your help!
 
  • #12
Yeah, of course they meant [tex]\nabla_{\bold{u}}\bold{T}[/tex] in which case the extra index is contracted. Duh.
 

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