COVID COVID-19 Coronavirus Containment Efforts

[Evo]

A nationwide lockdown is not justified. There are lots of rural counties without a single case of COVID-19 identified.

The 1st Amendment stands. By the time this is over, there will be an election in sight, and the same legal principles will apply to political assemblies. I'm sure fans of candidates that are better at online rallies would like to keep their boot on the throats of candidates who are better at in-person rallies. Cancelling political rallies also implicates the 1st Amendment and the justifications must be narrowly tailored and subjected to very strict scrutiny from the court of jurisdiction before they are enforceable. It is not needed and will not be legal in counties without a single case of COVID-19.

Ok, ENOUGH. We are talking about peoples health and LIVES here. I don't want to hear any more 1st Amendment, constitution talk in this thread.

If you want to gripe about people being concerned about public health and safety, please do it on another forum.

 

[Jarvis323]

A nationwide lockdown is not justified. There are lots of rural counties without a single case of COVID-19 identified.

The 1st Amendment stands. By the time this is over, there will be an election in sight, and the same legal principles will apply to political assemblies. I'm sure fans of candidates that are better at online rallies would like to keep their boot on the throats of candidates who are better at in-person rallies. Cancelling political rallies also implicates the 1st Amendment and the justifications must be narrowly tailored and subjected to very strict scrutiny from the court of jurisdiction before they are enforceable. It is not needed and will not be legal in counties without a single case of COVID-19.

You shouldn't say "without a single case". Maybe there are no detected cases. There may also have been no tests. You should expect by now that there are many cases. It is unfair to everyone else who is collectively doing their part to save our country from a huge national crisis. Your selfish actions, collectively, will jeapardize our success and put peoples lives at risk. I doubt you want to be responsible for this. Just do the right thing here, it's not that hard.

 

[Astronuc]

Sanjay Gupta (CNN) just mentioned a Chinese study, which reported that 4 of 5 (80%) who tested positive for 2019-nCoV were infected by someone who did not know they were infected. Many persons/carriers could be relatively healthy, or experience mild symptoms and be contagious. It is folks who have an underlying/pre-existing condition, e.g., diabetes, COPD, asthma, heart disease, . . . are vulnerable.

New York now has 4,152 confirmed COVID-19 cases (2,469 in NY City and 798 in Westchester County) (Updated March 19, 2020 at 1:20PM local time EDT). In contrast, Washington state reports 1376 cases (positive test) and 74 deaths, and they have 19,336 negative tests (Updated on March 19, 2020 at 3:00 pm local time PDT).

CNN reports 13,000+ cases in the US and 193 deaths. Yesterday, there were 8838 cases and 145 deaths.
The ncov2019.live reports 13,533 confirmed cases as of earlier today.

 

[russ_watters]

Pennsylvania is now on full lockdown for all but "life-sustaining" businesses:
https://www.inquirer.com/health/cor...g-businesses-tom-wolf-shut-down-20200319.html

The order takes effect immediately, with enforcement to start Saturday. I believe we're the first state for that.

 

[WWGD]

Pennsylvania is now on full lockdown for all but "life-sustaining" businesses:
https://www.inquirer.com/health/cor...g-businesses-tom-wolf-shut-down-20200319.html

The order takes effect immediately, with enforcement to start Saturday. I believe we're the first state for that.

Is there a curfew too for the general population?

 

[russ_watters]

Is there a curfew too for the general population?

No, but where would we go?

 

[WWGD]

No, but where would we go?

Sure. Maybe public parks, library, etc. Just to get out of the house for a while. Edit: I understand my question doesn't make that much sense but if I could, under those conditions, I would like to at least walk around the block for a few minutes just for sone exercise and fresh air.

 

[russ_watters]

Not at all. Neither the church in Baton Rouge nor I suggested the use of physical force. More of an MLK-style peaceful protest with policies we disagree with.

You can call it a "peaceful protest" if you want, but if you're defying an order and daring the police to move you, you're using your mass as physical force to resist movement/the order.

Legal force? That's just a synonym for asserting 1st Amendment rights. My attorney has recommended full compliance when presented with a court order supporting a specific church closure.

I wonder how many people in the US have a close enough professional relationship with a 1st Amendment attorney to call him "my attorney"? So yes, I call your looking seriously into your legal options for your intended actions a "unique" level of resistance.

 

[PeterDonis]

Maybe public parks, library, etc. Just to get out of the house for a while.

I don't see any reason to prohibit this. It should be easy enough to practice social distancing in places like these. My wife and I take care to keep our distance from other people when we take our dogs for walks.

 

[russ_watters]

Sure. Maybe public parks, library, etc. Just to get out of the house for a while. Edit: I understand my question doesn't make that much sense but if I could, under those conditions, I would like to at least walk around the block for a few minutes just for sone exercise and fresh air.

Government-staffed park facilities had already shut down, I think. The current order was just a one-page order about businesses. I don't think there is a current plan to stop people from leaving their homes (except for essential travel like grocery shopping), but it sounds like that's what San Francisco did, so I guess it is possible.

I don't see any reason to prohibit this. It should be easy enough to practice social distancing in places like these. My wife and I take care to keep our distance from other people when we take our dogs for walks.

San Francisco's order includes exceptions for hiking and dog-walking.

 

[Evo]

No, but where would we go?

Both of my daughters, due to health reasons, are self quarantined for their own safety. The youngest is very depressed because she is such a people person, she LOVES interacting with people live and helping them, working at home, she doesn't get to see where they are struggling and help. Most of these people don't even know enough to know what help they need on their own. I thrived on working at home, I'm a workaholic, so there was no limit to the hours I could work. I worked 12-16 hours a day, 7 days a week. I understand that it's not for everyone.

 

[dlgoff]

Are those her eggs on the left?

Yep.

 

[Evo]

Yep.

WOW! GO ROGER!

 

[Astronuc]

Today I went to the store and there were NO EGGS! NONE! Who hoards eggs?

Maybe they want to herd eggs? I hear it's easier than herding sheep or cats.

 

[russ_watters]

And now California's governor orders all residents to stay at home. No details yet on what exactly that means:

https://www.latimes.com/california/...-california-1-billion-federal-aid-coronavirus

[edit] For now it sounds like an "order" without teeth.

 

[morrobay]

Where I live garlic is an often recommended medicine for prevention in times with flu or cold

Indeed I chop up a few fresh cloves mixed with tomato juice, lemon, salt pepper , hot sauce and worchester sauce . I would like to know what the specific mechanisms are that have adverse effects on viruses.
http://journal.isv.org.ir/article-1-205-en.pdf

 

[mfb]

US finally ramped up testing: Table
13,000 tests on Monday, 22,000 tests on Tuesday, 27,000 tests on Wednesday.
Overall about 10% of the tests came back positive.

The breakdown by state shows large differences:
Alaska tested 406 and found 6 cases.
Montana tested 773 and found 12 cases.

Delaware tested 66 and found 30 cases.
Maryland tested 201 and found 107 cases.

 

[bhobba]

Regarding people defying societies efforts to mitigate, I believe it is a combination of stupidity, ignorance, and selfishness.

I think politicians sometimes actually believe their own rhetoric - Australians, Americans, British or whatever will all come together to fight this thing. Pigs might fly too. To be fair their have been many reported cases of people going above and beyond, unfortunately they are not the majority.

Thanks
Bill

 

[BillTre]

unfortunately they are not the majority.

Or may be they are just don't get much publicity.

 

[Astronuc]

Some treatment possibilities: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...-vaccines-heres-where-things-stand-2020-03-06

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remdesivir#SARS-CoV-2

 

[nsaspook]

SACRAMENTO —
Gov. Gavin Newsom on Thursday ordered all Californians to stay at home, marking the first mandatory restrictions placed on the lives of all 40 million residents in the state’s fight against the novel coronavirus.
The governor’s action comes at a critical time in California, where 19 people have died and an additional 958 have tested positive for the disease.
The mandatory order allows Californians to continue to visit gas stations, pharmacies, grocery stores, farmers markets, food banks, convenience stores, take-out and delivery restaurants, banks and laundromats. People can leave their homes to care for a relative or a friend or seek health care services. It exempts workers in 16 federal critical infrastructure sectors, including food and agriculture, healthcare, transportation, energy, financial services, emergency response and others.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.co...-california-1-billion-federal-aid-coronavirus
IDENTIFYING CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE DURING COVID-19

Chemical Sector

Commercial Facilities Sector

Communications Sector

Critical Manufacturing Sector

Dams Sector

Defense Industrial Base Sector

Emergency Services Sector

Energy Sector

Financial Services Sector

Food and Agriculture Sector

Government Facilities Sector

Healthcare and Public Health Sector

Information Technology Sector

Nuclear Reactors, Materials, and Waste Sector

Transportation Systems Sector

Water and Wastewater Systems Sector

 

[Keith_McClary]

Antisocial distancing
(Looks Good on Paper comic)
Funny, but also true?

 

[Rive]

I would like to know what the specific mechanisms are that have adverse effects on viruses.

I don't know about that, but garlic - especially if eaten raw - can be a great help with social distancing.
The same goes with some 'stinky' type cheese. Those even said to have a positive effect in understanding jokes too

If Lockdown for the common flu is initiated in the US. Would it kill the common flu virus? If not. Why would it kill the COVID-19 and not the common flu?

Lockdown kills the flu. As I recall there was a report about plummeting flu infections after lockdown - somewhere in the East, but I can't recall the specifics.
It is not used against flu because that is a rather 'mild' disease compared to this one.

 

[mfb]

Flu or common cold?

The common cold spreads much easier than SARS-CoV-2 and we don't force people to completely isolate themselves if they just have the common cold because it's a much milder disease.

 

[chirhone]

Flu or common cold?

The common cold spreads much easier than SARS-CoV-2 and we don't force people to completely isolate themselves if they just have the common cold because it's a much milder disease.

What is the difference beween flu or common cold? I only experienced common cold. I never have flu. What does having flu feel like?

 

[chirhone]

I don't know about that, but garlic - especially if eaten raw - can be a great help with social distancing.
The same goes with some 'stinky' type cheese. Those even said to have a positive effect in understanding jokes too Lockdown kills the flu. As I recall there was a report about plummeting flu infections after lockdown - somewhere in the East, but I can't recall the specifics.
It is not used against flu because that is a rather 'mild' disease compared to this one.

If lockdown kills the flu. Why is there still flu in the US that kills millions every year? Does it mean the COVID-19 can never disappar and will become like the flu in the US?

I mentioned flu in the US because it seems only the US have flu. I experience common colds but not flu.

 

[mfb]

What is the difference beween flu or common cold? I only experienced common cold. I never have flu. What does having flu feel like?

Very different things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_cold
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza

I mentioned flu in the US because it seems only the US have flu.

Huh? No. It circulates worldwide.
We stop some strain of the flu every year, but the flu has many different strains and can be transmitted across species somewhat easily. Getting rid of all strains everywhere is unrealistic.

 

[Tom.G]

Here is a link to the California Governer lockdown order. Lots of references to different sections of the law so he may really mean it.
However there were several cities already under local lockdown that were not/could not be enforced.

https://covid19.ca.gov/img/N-33-20.pdf

 

[atyy]

What is the difference beween flu or common cold? I only experienced common cold. I never have flu. What does having flu feel like?

Flu versus common cold
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/coldflu.htm
https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/flu-cold-symptoms#1

Flu versus common cold versus Covid-19
https://www.ynhhs.org/-/media/image...hash=FDC6E55F219C3B56E98229B7CE91C0AF99BC1258

Covid-19 symptoms in Wuhan
https://cdn.jamanetwork.com/ama/con...I3Dv8nRqDw__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIE5G5CRDK6RD3PGA

In Covid-19, only 40% of people have fever as an early symptom (the percentage with fever is about 85% later in the disease), so if you have other symptoms of Covid-19 without fever, you should still self-isolate and consult a doctor according to your local health system guidelines.

 

[Jarvis323]

It 's getting so bad. I don't know how we are going to manage this. Hospitals are already running out of PPE and having to make it DIY.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...e-masks-covid-19-shields-from-office-supplies

Without PPE, the heath care workers will get sick, doctors and nurses will die. We will very quickly be understaffed, demoralized, and over capacity; before it even really gets going. I have been thinking a lot about how under appreciated the health care staff is. I haven't heard many public officials thank them for their service and commend their bravery. They are going to be fighting in a truly terrifying war zone, with millions of lives depending on them.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/covid-19-is-killing-italys-doctors-the-us-could-be-next

There's got to be lots of companies out there that can help. It would seem like a fairly trivial thing for some like Elon Musk to put his vast resources towards this. I hate to say this, but I think at this point the government should temporarily commandeer certain manufacturing facilities that are refusing to help, and ask for volunteers and even draft people to help transform them and make supplies. Is there any way for the public to help pressure them to get going? Can't we just grab a few thousand engineers and get to work; at least something better than nurses making masks out of office supplies?

As crazy as it sounds: Why couldn't we even get a group of PF members to come together and figure out how to make some improvised PPE? At least if it comes to health care workers making it themselves, couldn't we make some designs, figure out what supplies could be used that can be obtained in mass quantity, figure out the logistics, etc. If someone can even solve this problem on paper, it would be a pretty good help I would guess. Are there any grassroots platforms that can be used to organize efforts? I feel like they are probably just having discussions with executives and going through bureaucratic processes. Maybe legal issues will block this kind of thing?

The US is the country that said they were the most prepared in the entire world. That was obviously a lie, but still, I feel for the people in the many countries who may have even less resources.