Distinguishing Curved Space vs. Coordinate Choices in Mathematics

In summary, the curvature of space R is the determining factor in distinguishing curved space from the choice of coordinates. In A.A. Logunov's RTG approach to gravity, the Minkowsky metric and gravitational field are clearly separated due to the inclusion of the former in the field equations. When discussing coordinates, it is important to note that transforming to an accelerating frame does not result in curvature, as acceleration is different from gravity. A coordinate system is simply a function from an open set of spacetime into \mathbb R^4 and if the Riemann tensor is zero, its components are zero in all coordinate systems. Therefore, spacetime does not become curved solely based on the choice of coordinates.
  • #1
madness
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How do we distinguish (mathematically) between curved space and the choice of coordinates? For example, the flat space metric in spherical polar coordinates looks as if it is curved space. I can ask the same for gravitational waves - how do we know that it isn't the TT gauge which is wavelike, rather than spacetime itself?
 
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  • #2
The space curvature R is the criterion. Whatever coordinate change you do in a flat space (R=0), the curvature remains to be zero.

In A.A. Logunov's approach to gravity (RTG) the equations determining the harmonic coordinates are not the "coordinate conditions" but the field equations. In his construction the separation of the Minkowsky metric and the gravitational field is explicit due to involving the former in the field equations.
 
  • #3
Ok thanks that's all I needed to know. I'm actually working from Maggiore's text on gravitational waves. I'm having to learn GR in tandem with gravitational waves so I'm still trying to figure out a lot of conceptual issues.
 
  • #4
Sorry just another quick question. What do you mean by coordinates here? Presumably tranforming to a frame which is accelerating with respect to the flat frame would result in curvature, so I presume this is not what you mean by a coordinate change. At any point it is possible to find a frame which is locally flat, so I are you talking about globally flat here?
 
  • #5
madness said:
...What do you mean by coordinates here? Presumably transforming to a frame which is accelerating with respect to the flat frame would result in curvature...

No, no! Acceleration is different from gravity. Take simple Classical Mechanics and choose an accelerating RF. Such a change of variables introduces additional forces but the space remains flat, that's for sure. So by coordinate change I mean any coordinate change which is reversible (not singular). If it is done starting from a flat space, the curvature R=0 remains intact (it is an invariant anyway).
 
  • #6
A coordinate system is a function from an open set of spacetime into [itex]\mathbb R^4[/itex]. If the Riemann tensor is zero, its components are zero in all coordinate systems. Spacetime doesn't get curved just because you choose a coordinate system with the property that a hypersurface of constant time is a curved submanifold.
 
  • #7
Ok that's cleared some things up. But choosing an accelerating frame does introduce a non-zero affine connection right? Is it that the derivatives of the connection (which gives the Riemann tensor) are still zero, or that at least they combine in such a way as to let R=0?
 

1. What is the difference between curved space and coordinate choices in mathematics?

Curved space refers to the concept of space being curved or distorted, as described by Einstein's theory of general relativity. Coordinate choices, on the other hand, refer to the different ways of representing this curved space mathematically, such as using different coordinate systems or reference frames.

2. Why is it important to distinguish between curved space and coordinate choices?

Distinguishing between curved space and coordinate choices is important because it helps us understand the underlying geometry of space and how it can be described and measured mathematically. It also allows us to make accurate predictions and calculations in areas such as physics and astronomy.

3. How can one differentiate between curved space and coordinate choices in mathematical equations?

One way to differentiate between curved space and coordinate choices is by looking at the mathematical equations themselves. Curved space will be represented by equations that involve curvature terms, such as the Ricci tensor or Ricci scalar, while coordinate choices will be reflected in the choice of coordinate system, such as Cartesian, polar, or spherical coordinates.

4. Can curved space and coordinate choices coexist?

Yes, curved space and coordinate choices can coexist. In fact, coordinate choices are necessary for describing curved space mathematically. Different coordinate systems can be used to represent the same curved space, with each coordinate system providing a different perspective or way of measuring the curvature.

5. Are there any practical applications for understanding the distinction between curved space and coordinate choices?

Yes, there are many practical applications for understanding the distinction between curved space and coordinate choices. This knowledge is essential for fields such as physics, astronomy, and engineering, where accurate calculations and predictions in curved spaces are crucial. It also has implications for understanding the structure of the universe and the behavior of objects in space.

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