Cyclical formula? (noob warning)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a phenomenon observed in a binomial probability function, specifically the iterative evaluation of the function 10x(1-x)^9. Participants explore the behavior of this function when a random number between 0 and 1 is repeatedly inputted, leading to a consistent set of output values.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes an experiment using a TI-84 calculator and Excel to evaluate a binomial probability function, noting that the outputs converge to four specific values regardless of the initial input.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on the function being evaluated, confirming it is 10x(1-x)^9 and noting the importance of the correct formulation in Excel.
  • A later reply introduces the concept of the logistic map, suggesting that the iterative process has similar properties and encourages graphing the function to observe intersections with y=x, indicating cyclical behavior.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the iterative nature of the function and its outputs, but the implications and underlying reasons for the observed behavior remain open for further exploration and discussion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion does not resolve the mathematical underpinnings of the observed phenomenon, and there are no explicit assumptions or definitions clarified regarding the convergence of the outputs.

romanawgarlic
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Hello all! I am just a guy whos taking a basic statistics course and came across a phenomena that interested me. Probably very basic, but i can't figure it out by myself.

Was messing around on my TI-84 the other day, and ended up just pressing "solve" on a binomial probability function where the probability of the events were the answers of the previously performed function. I don't know exactly how to explain it, so i'll just write it out:

(10 nCr 1)(ans^9)((1-ans)^1)

weirdly, i kept getting numbers around the same values, so i put the equation into excell and ran it a thousand times with a random starting number (0<x<1). strangely, no matter what the first number was, the answers always tended to the same four numbers, in the same order:

0,385203336 0,048336317 0,30947461 0,110469374

What gives? Nothing about this in my textbook, and i don't know where to start searching on the internet. An explanation or link to related theory or anything that will alleviate my puzzlement would be much appreciated.

Thanks y'all!
 
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Are you saying that you evaluated the function
[tex]10 x^9(1-x)[/tex]
and kept getting the same numbers as you varied x?
 
Office_Shredder said:
Are you saying that you evaluated the function
[tex]10 x^9(1-x)[/tex]
and kept getting the same numbers as you varied x?

sorry, got the equation mixed up! (feels like it shouldn't matter, but apparently it does when i plug it into excell

1. started by plugging a random number 0<x<1 into [tex]10 x(1-x)^9[/tex]
2. took the answer i got from that and put it through the same function [tex]10 x(1-x)^9[/tex]
3. took the answer from step 2 and put it through the equation again, and again, about a thousand times.


result: i ended up getting these numbers as answers time and time again in that order:
0,385203336 0,048336317 0,30947461 0,110469374

sorry about not being clear, I'm not great with mathematical terminology.

if you want to try it for yourself, you can put this in cell A3 in an excell sheet:

=RAND()

and this in cell A4

=10*POWER(A3,1)*POWER(1-A3,9)

then repeat the formula in the cell of A4 as many times as you need (about 100 times should do it)

thanks
 
Last edited:
With a first power instead of a ninth power, this iteration is known as the logistic map

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/LogisticMap.html

It seems to have a lot of the same properties

try to graph y=f(f(f(f(x)))) with f(x) = 10 x(1-x)^9. The graph will intersect in 4 places with the graph of y = x, which are the points of the cycle you've found
 

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