De broglie wavelength derived from relativity but used in non relativity?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the application of the de Broglie wavelength in the context of both relativistic and non-relativistic physics. Participants explore the implications of using the de Broglie wavelength formula, λ = h/p, and its relationship to momentum in different frameworks, as well as the distinction between phase velocity and group velocity in wave mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the de Broglie wavelength formula does not explicitly differentiate between relativistic and non-relativistic momentum, suggesting that it can be applied in both contexts.
  • Others propose that the non-relativistic approximation for momentum, p = mv, can be used to derive a corresponding non-relativistic expression for the de Broglie wavelength.
  • One participant raises a question about the distinction between phase velocity and group velocity, indicating that the phase velocity relates to the wave's derivative while the group velocity pertains to the actual velocity of the electron.
  • A later reply expresses confusion regarding the relationship between phase velocity, group velocity, and the de Broglie wavelength, specifically questioning the meaning of vp = c²/vg and how it relates to the wavelength of the electron versus the guiding phase wavelength.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the relationship between phase and group velocities, and there is no consensus on the implications of these concepts for the de Broglie wavelength. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the clarity of these relationships.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the applicability of the de Broglie wavelength in different contexts, as well as the definitions of phase and group velocities. The mathematical relationships presented are not fully resolved.

phyky
Messages
57
Reaction score
0
The question as stated in title, why?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
The deBroglie wavelength is introduced as λ = h/p. Here nothing is said about the momentum and whether we talk about rel. or non-rel. physics.

But b/c the rel. expression for p can be approximated with the non-rel. expression for v << c we also have a non-rel. approximation for the wavelength, namely λ = h / mv (m: rest mass).
 
and 1 more thing about the velocity of de broglie wavelength is the phase velocity from derivative, but the velocity of electron is group velocity, right? Or just like his pilot wave theory of a phase guides the electron in space?
 
last question make confuse i should ask in this way. phase velocity, vp=ω/k=fλ. With vp=c^2/vg where vg is group velocity is able to derive de broglie wavelength. So i do not understand the description is λ=h/mvg and since λ depend on vp and the equation show is related to vg. So my question is what exactly vp=c^2/vg mean? and λ is what exactly?wavelength of electron or the phase wavelength that guide the electron? and the phase velocity relate to the phase in wave packet? I m confuse...
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
5K