- #71
JaredJames
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Just out of curiosity, this flight disappeared from radar. Why aren't aircraft tracked by GPS? Is there no permanent contact/tracking with an aircraft?
Jared
Jared
jarednjames said:Surely there are better tracking systems? I somehow find you saying it was easy to find the crash site a bit unbelievable. Took them a fair bit of time, plus they didnt confirm the debris straight away (hence this thread).
Moonbear said:I wasn't expecting them to get food and water into the raft, which is why I suggest time has run out even if there were initially survivors. What would they have as food? Maybe if they were REALLY lucky, they'd have the airplane peanuts from the galley, but planes only carry enough food for one meal, two tops, and I'd expect even if some were salvaged, most would have gotten away during a crash.
The Brazilian Air Force has found 15 bodies floating in the ocean near where investigators believe doomed Air France Flight 447 crashed.
They also discovered further debris from the plane yesterday, including a section of fuselage bearing the Air France logo.
BobG said:A person would be better off drinking their own urine than drinking seawater.
Seawater is about 4% salt. Salt concentration of urine varies a lot, but would be about 2% max. If the person was well hydrated before being stranded, the first couple cycles of urine would probably be well below that, but, since the person is just reingesting waste, the concentration would quickly build up.
The person might gain an extra day or so if he's stranded for a short time - at least he's maximumizing the concentration of the little liquid he does have to expel.
If more than a very few days, he's not prolonging anything - he's not getting rid of toxic wastes from his body. The only advantage over seawater is that at least the person wouldn't be adding salts from external sources.
They started out with fresh water supplies and some food in each of those cases, and had the means to catch fish. When you are in a life raft full of passengers from a crashed flight, you don't start out with supplies. This isn't even the sort of life raft that a fishing vessel would have with a canopy and flares. As far as I know, on a commercial flight, it's the inflatable slide used for exiting the doors that can be detached for use as a life raft.Office_Shredder said:There were two links posted about people who survived for extended (months) lengths of time on rainwater and fish
They found several debris fields within a day or two and I'm assuming one was the right one. It took several days to confirm only because it took ships a while to get on site and the weather was bad.jarednjames said:Surely there are better tracking systems? I somehow find you saying it was easy to find the crash site a bit unbelievable. Took them a fair bit of time, plus they didnt confirm the debris straight away (hence this thread).
I'm not sure that's true. These things are huge and weigh a good hundred pounds - I'd be surprised if they don't throw in 10lb of key provisions/equipment like a flare gun, mirror, fishing pole, and hand-crank RO machine.Moonbear said:This isn't even the sort of life raft that a fishing vessel would have with a canopy and flares.
russ_watters said:I'm not sure that's true. These things are huge and weigh a good hundred pounds - I'd be surprised if they don't throw in 10lb of key provisions/equipment like a flare gun, mirror, fishing pole, and hand-crank RO machine.
russ_watters said:I'm not sure that's true. These things are huge and weigh a good hundred pounds - I'd be surprised if they don't throw in 10lb of key provisions/equipment like a flare gun, mirror, fishing pole, and hand-crank RO machine.
Borek said:RO (reverse osmosis) machine is just that.
Edit: something like that for example: http://www.campingsurvival.com/kahaemdewama.html - these things exist and I suppose they are part of the life raft equipment.
Moonbear said:What are the odds that anyone surviving an airplane crash into the middle of the ocean still had a full bladder as they were climbing into life rafts?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090608/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_planeEight more bodies also were found, bringing the total recovered to 24 since Air France Flight 447 disappeared with 228 people on board, according to Air Force Col. Henry Munhoz.
Presumably bodies when flying in numerous directions and hitting the water at terminal speed would be fatal. Most people would likely have been unconscious once the pressure dropped - at about 34,000 ft (~10 km) the pressure is about 0.24 atm / 3.47psia / 23.93 kPa.SAO PAULO – Autopsies revealed fractures in the legs, hips and arms of Air France disaster victims, a Brazilian official said Wednesday. Experts said those injuries — and the large pieces of wreckage pulled from the Atlantic — strongly suggest the plane broke up in the air.
With more than 400 bits of debris recovered from the ocean's surface, the top French investigator expressed optimism about discovering what brought down Flight 447, but he also called the conditions — far from land in very deep waters — "one of the worst situations ever known in an accident investigation."
French investigators are beginning to form "an image that is progressively less fuzzy," Paul-Louis Arslanian, who runs the French air accident investigation agency BEA, told a news conference outside Paris.
"We are in a situation that is a bit more favorable than the first days," Arslanian said. "We can say there is a little less uncertainty, so there is a little more optimism. ... (but) it is premature for the time being to say what happened."
A spokesman for Brazilian medical examiners told The Associated Press that fractures were found in autopsies on an undisclosed number of the 50 bodies recovered so far. The official spoke on condition he not be named due to department rules.
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Borek said:
Cyrus said:I was talking with someone who mentioned that they (Airbus) didn't know until recently that they had all this data from the Airplane because each Airbus Aircraft has a satellite link that sends information about the airplanes status during the flight so that if it needs repairs they have the parts ready by the time the airplane lands.
Borek said:From the very beginning we were all the time told about 24 (or something) failure messages sent automatically by plane. From what was repeated - ad nauseam - by media, these messages serve just the purpose you have mentioned - they help in servicing the plane once landed. I suppose s/he referred to these messages? Or is there something new?