Definitions of Algebras in Cohn and in Dummit and Foote

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differing definitions of algebras as presented in P. M. Cohn's "Introduction to Ring Theory" and Dummit and Foote's text. Participants explore the implications and equivalences of these definitions, focusing on the mathematical structures involved in defining an R-algebra.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Peter expresses confusion over the definitions of an R-algebra in Cohn and Dummit and Foote, noting they appear to be different.
  • Some participants assert that the definitions are equivalent, providing reasoning for both directions of implication between the definitions.
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of certain steps in proving the equivalence, particularly regarding the mapping of identities and the inclusion of subrings in the center of A.
  • Participants discuss the need to verify that the action defined by the ring homomorphism satisfies the axioms laid out by Cohn.
  • There is a challenge to confirm whether the argument showing that f(R) is contained in Z(A) is sufficiently rigorous.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

While some participants agree on the equivalence of the definitions, there remains disagreement on the correctness of specific steps in the proofs provided, particularly regarding the implications of the axioms and the structure of the mappings involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations in the arguments, such as the need for clearer demonstrations of how certain axioms apply and the conditions under which the definitions hold. There is also mention of unresolved mathematical steps that could affect the conclusions drawn.

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I am reading "Introduction to Ring Theory" by P. M. Cohn (Springer Undergraduate Mathematics Series)

In Chapter 2: Linear Algebras and Artinian Rings we find the definition of an algebra ... ... but in the chapter on module theory on page 342 of Dummit and Foote we find a different definition ... I cannot see how to reconcile these definitions ...

Cohn's definition of a $$k$$-algebra ($$k$$ is a field) reads as follows:View attachment 3275In Cohn's terms, then, presumably an $$R$$-algebra, where $$R$$ is a commutative ring with identity, would be a mapping $$R \times A \to A$$ denoted by $$( \alpha , r ) \to \alpha r$$ such that L.A.1 to L.A.5 hold with $$\alpha$$ and $$\beta \in R$$ instead of $$k$$.

Now, on page 342 Dummit and Foote define an R-algebra as follows:

"Definition. Let $$R$$ be a commutative ring with identity. An $$R$$-algebra is a ring $$A$$ with identity together with a ring homomorphism $$f \ : \ R \to A $$ mapping $$1_R$$ to $$1_A$$ such that the subring $$f(R)$$ of $$A$$ is contained in the center of $$A$$."

I cannot reconcile these two definitions ... can someone please help?

Peter
 
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Those two definitions are indeed equivalent.

For the $(\Rightarrow)$ case, note that in D-F's definition of an $R$-algebra, the ring homomorphism $f : R \to A$ gives a natural action of $R$ over $A$ defined as $(r, a) \mapsto f(r) \cdot a$. Can you show that this action satisfies axiom LA.1. to LA.5. in Cohn?

For the $(\Leftarrow)$ case, note that Cohn's axiom LA.1. to LA.4. are really $R$-module axioms, so that gives $A$ an $R$-module structure, with the action $(r, a) \to r \cdot a$. Define the map $f : R \to A$ as $r \mapsto r \cdot 1_A$, where $\cdot$ is our action of $R$ over $A$. Can you verify that $f$ is a ring homomorphism sending identity to identity? Use axiom LA.5. to verify that $f(R) \subseteq Z(A)$.
 
mathbalarka said:
Those two definitions are indeed equivalent.

For the $(\Rightarrow)$ case, note that in D-F's definition of an $R$-algebra, the ring homomorphism $f : R \to A$ gives a natural action of $R$ over $A$ defined as $(r, a) \mapsto f(r) \cdot a$. Can you show that this action satisfies axiom LA.1. to LA.5. in Cohn?

For the $(\Leftarrow)$ case, note that Cohn's axiom LA.1. to LA.4. are really $R$-module axioms, so that gives $A$ an $R$-module structure, with the action $(r, a) \to r \cdot a$. Define the map $f : R \to A$ as $r \mapsto r \cdot 1_A$, where $\cdot$ is our action of $R$ over $A$. Can you verify that $f$ is a ring homomorphism sending identity to identity? Use axiom LA.5. to verify that $f(R) \subseteq Z(A)$.

Thanks for the help and guidance Mathbalarka ... working on the post using your ideas ...

Thanks again,

Peter
 
mathbalarka said:
Those two definitions are indeed equivalent.

For the $(\Rightarrow)$ case, note that in D-F's definition of an $R$-algebra, the ring homomorphism $f : R \to A$ gives a natural action of $R$ over $A$ defined as $(r, a) \mapsto f(r) \cdot a$. Can you show that this action satisfies axiom LA.1. to LA.5. in Cohn?

For the $(\Leftarrow)$ case, note that Cohn's axiom LA.1. to LA.4. are really $R$-module axioms, so that gives $A$ an $R$-module structure, with the action $(r, a) \to r \cdot a$. Define the map $f : R \to A$ as $r \mapsto r \cdot 1_A$, where $\cdot$ is our action of $R$ over $A$. Can you verify that $f$ is a ring homomorphism sending identity to identity? Use axiom LA.5. to verify that $f(R) \subseteq Z(A)$.

In this post I will attempt to show that if we assume the conditions of Cohn's Definition (with $$k = R$$ being a commutative ring with $$1_R$$) then the conditions of Cohn's definition imply the conditions of D&F's definition ... ...

We need, then, to show that there is a ring homomorphism:

$$f \ : \ R \to A$$ mapping $$1_A \to 1_B$$

such that the subring $$f(R)$$ of $$A$$ is contained in the center of $$A$$, that is $$f(R) \subseteq Z(A)$$ ... ...

[ Note that the center of $$A$$ is as follows:

$$Z(A) = \{ z \in A \ | \ za = az \text{ for all } a \in A \}$$ ]Now (following Mathbalarka - see above post) we define

$$f \ : \ R \to A$$ by $$\alpha \mapsto \alpha 1_A$$

Now, we need to show that $$f$$ is a ring homomorphism ... ... that is that:

$$( \alpha + \beta ) f = \alpha f + \beta f
$$

where $$\alpha , \beta \in R$$

and

$$( \alpha \beta ) f = ( \alpha f ) ( \beta f )
$$

where, again, $$ \alpha , \beta \in R
$$Now to show this we proceed as follows:

$$( \alpha + \beta ) f
$$

$$= ( \alpha + \beta ) 1_A$$ ... ... Definition of f

= $$\alpha 1_A + \beta 1_A$$ ... ... by L.A.2

$$= \alpha f + \beta f $$ ... ... Definition of fFurther we have:

$$( \alpha \beta ) f
$$

$$= ( \alpha \beta ) 1_A$$ ... ... Definition of f

$$= \alpha ( \beta 1_A)$$ ... ... by L.A.3

$$= ( \alpha 1_A ) ( \beta 1_A)$$ ... ... since $$\alpha = \alpha 1_A$$ ( ? Is this correct ?)

$$= ( \alpha f) ( \beta f)$$ ... ... Definition of f
Now, we also need to show that $$f$$ maps identity $$1_R$$ to identity $$1_A$$, that is

$$1_R f = 1_A$$

But,

$$1_R f = 1_R 1_A$$ ... ... Definition of f

$$= 1_A$$ ... ... by L.A.4
Now we must show that $$f(R) \subseteq Z(A)$$, where:

$$Z(A) = \{ z \in A \ | \ za = az \text{ for all } a \in A \}$$So to proceed, let $$x \in f(R)$$

Now $$x \in f(R) \Longrightarrow \text{ there exists } \alpha \in R \text{ such that } x = \alpha f$$

Now also consider $$y \in f(R)$$ ...

$$y \in f(R) \Longrightarrow \text{ there exists } \beta \in R \text{ such that } y= \beta f$$Now, given the above:

$$xy $$

$$= ( \alpha f ) ( \beta f )$$ ... ... definition of $$x,y$$

$$= ( \alpha \beta ) f $$ ... ... since f is a homomorphism

$$= ( \beta \alpha ) f$$ ... ... since $$R$$ is commutative

$$= ( \beta f ) ( \alpha f)$$ ... ... since f is a homomorphism

$$= yx$$

Hence $$x \in Z(A)$$ as required ...Can someone please confirm that the above argument/analysis is correct?


***NOTE***

I am much concerned about my demonstration that $$f(R) \subseteq Z(A)$$ since I did not explicitly use L.A.5 as Mathbalarka advised ... ...
 
Last edited:
Peter said:
$$( \alpha + \beta ) f
$$

$$= ( \alpha + \beta ) 1_A$$ ... ... Definition of f

= $$\alpha 1_A + \beta 1_A$$ ... ... by L.A.2

$$= \alpha f + \beta f $$ ... ... Definition of f

This part is good.

Peter said:
Further we have:

$$( \alpha \beta ) f
$$

$$= ( \alpha \beta ) 1_A$$ ... ... Definition of f

$$= \alpha ( \beta 1_A)$$ ... ... by L.A.3

$$= ( \alpha 1_A ) ( \beta 1_A)$$ ... ... since $$\alpha = \alpha 1_A$$ ( ? Is this correct ?)

$$= ( \alpha f) ( \beta f)$$ ... ... Definition of f

I don't follow your step $4$. $\alpha \cdot 1_A = f(\alpha)$ which is an element of $A$, NOT an element of $R$, so surely $\alpha$ can't be replaced by $\alpha \cdot 1_A$. That step is invalid. [Hint : You need to use axiom LA.5. to prove that $f(\alpha \beta) = f(\alpha) f(\beta)$]

Peter said:
Now, we also need to show that $$f$$ maps identity $$1_R$$ to identity $$1_A$$, that is

$$1_R f = 1_A$$

But,

$$1_R f = 1_R 1_A$$ ... ... Definition of f

$$= 1_A$$ ... ... by L.A.4

This looks good.

Peter said:
Now, given the above:

$$xy $$

$$= ( \alpha f ) ( \beta f )$$ ... ... definition of $$x,y$$

$$= ( \alpha \beta ) f $$ ... ... since f is a homomorphism

$$= ( \beta \alpha ) f$$ ... ... since $$R$$ is commutative

$$= ( \beta f ) ( \alpha f)$$ ... ... since f is a homomorphism

$$= yx$$

Hence $$x \in Z(A)$$ as required ...

You have only proved that element of $f(R)$ commute with each other, NOT $f(R) \subseteq Z(A)$. You need to show that $xf(y) = f(y)x$ for all $x \in A$ and $y \in R$ to accomplish this.
 
Last edited:
mathbalarka said:
This part is good.
I don't follow your step $4$. $\alpha \cdot 1_A = f(\alpha)$ which is an element of $A$, NOT an element of $R$, so surely $\alpha$ can't be replaced by $\alpha \cdot 1_A$. That step is invalid. [Hint : You need to use axiom LA.5. to prove that $f(\alpha \beta) = f(\alpha) f(\beta)$]
This looks good.
You have only proved that element of $f(R)$ commute with each other, NOT $f(R) \subseteq Z(A)$. You need to show that $xf(y) = f(y)x$ for all $x \in A$ and $y \in R$ to accomplish this.

Thanks for the critique and feedback Mathbalarka ... Getting tired now ... But will check all you have said tomorrow ...

Thanks again,

Peter
 
(LA.5) states that:

$(\alpha\cdot x)y = x(\alpha\cdot y) = \alpha \cdot (xy)$ for all $\alpha \in R$, and all $x,y \in A$.

Now suppose $a \in (R)f$ (I am writing the mappings on the right, which is a bit odd in this scenario, because we have a LEFT action).

We want to show that for any $x \in A$:

$ax = xa$.

Since $a \in (R)f$, we have: $a = \alpha f$ for some $\alpha \in R$.

By definition, $\alpha f = \alpha \cdot 1_A$.

Applying (LA.5) we have:

$ax = (\alpha f)x = (\alpha \cdot 1_A)x = 1_A(\alpha \cdot x) = \alpha \cdot x$

$= \alpha \cdot (x1_A) = x(\alpha \cdot 1_A) = x(\alpha f) = xa$.

The idea is: "scalars" commute with "vectors" (or rather, the embeddings of scalars in $A$ afforded by $f$ do).

Note that this is an embedding (of necessity) when $R$ is a FIELD (as the only ring-homomorphisms from a field are injective, if we require "unity be preserved").

Note as well, that mathbalarka's construction require that $A$ be a UNITAL ring.
 
mathbalarka said:
This part is good.
I don't follow your step $4$. $\alpha \cdot 1_A = f(\alpha)$ which is an element of $A$, NOT an element of $R$, so surely $\alpha$ can't be replaced by $\alpha \cdot 1_A$. That step is invalid. [Hint : You need to use axiom LA.5. to prove that $f(\alpha \beta) = f(\alpha) f(\beta)$]
This looks good.
You have only proved that element of $f(R)$ commute with each other, NOT $f(R) \subseteq Z(A)$. You need to show that $xf(y) = f(y)x$ for all $x \in A$ and $y \in R$ to accomplish this.

Thanks again Mathbalarka ... indeed, you are correct ... how careless of me ...

Another attempt follows ...
We wish to show that $$f(R) \subseteq Z(A)$$

where:

$$Z(A) = \{ z \in A \ | \ za = az \text{ for all } a \in A \}$$
Now if we take $$x \in f(R)$$ ... ...

... then $$x \in Z(A)$$ if $$xa = ax \text{ for all } a \in A$$So ... ... consider any $$a \in A $$... ... Then proceed as follows ... ...$$x \in f(R) $$

$$\Longrightarrow$$ there exists $$\alpha \in R$$ such that $$\alpha f = x$$Now we want $$xa = ax$$ for all $$a \in A
$$

That is, we want to show $$( \alpha f ) a = a ( \alpha f )$$ for all $$a \in A
$$But we have that:

$$( \alpha f ) a$$

$$= ( \alpha 1_A )a$$ ... ... by definition of f

$$= \alpha (1_A a )$$ ... ... by L.A.5

$$= \alpha a$$ ... ... since 1_A a = a
However we also have that:

$$a ( \alpha f )
$$$$= a ( \alpha 1_A ) $$ ... ... by definition of f

$$= \alpha ( a 1_A)$$ ... ... by L.A.5

$$= \alpha a$$ ... ... since $$1_A a = a$$
So we have that

$$( \alpha f ) a = a ( \alpha f ) = \alpha a
$$ for all $$a \in A$$But $$\alpha f = x$$

So, we have $$xa = ax$$ for all $$a \in A$$; that is $$x \in Z(A)$$
Could someone please critique my demonstration that the subring f(R) of A is contained in the center of A?Peter
 
Last edited:
Peter said:
Thanks again Mathbalarka ... indeed, you are correct ... how careless of me ...

Another attempt follows ...
We wish to show that $$f(R) \subseteq Z(A)$$

where:

$$Z(A) = \{ z \in A \ | \ za = az \text{ for all } a \in A \}$$

Now if we take $$x \in f(R)$$ ... ...

... then $$x \in Z(A)$$ if $$xa = ax \text{ for all } a \in A$$So ... ... consider any $$a \in A $$... ... Then proceed as follows ... ...$$x \in f(R) $$

$$\Longrightarrow$$ there exists $$\alpha \in R$$ such that $$\alpha f = x$$Now we want $$xa = ax$$ for all $$a \in A
$$

That is, we want to show $$( \alpha f ) a = a ( \alpha f )$$ for all $$a \in A
$$But we have that:

$$( \alpha f ) a$$

$$= ( \alpha 1_A )a$$ ... ... by definition of f

$$= \alpha (1_A a )$$ ... ... by L.A.5

$$= \alpha a$$ ... ... since 1_A a = a
However we also have that:

$$a ( \alpha f )
$$$$= a ( \alpha 1_A ) $$ ... ... by definition of f

$$= \alpha ( a 1_A)$$ ... ... by L.A.5

$$= \alpha a$$ ... ... since $$1_A a = a$$
So we have that

$$( \alpha f ) a = a ( \alpha f ) = \alpha a
$$ for all $$a \in A$$But $$\alpha f = x$$

So, we have $$xa = ax$$ for all $$a \in A$$; that is $$x \in Z(A)$$
Could someone please critique my demonstration that the subring f(R) of A is contained in the center of A?Peter

Your proof is logically sound.
 
  • #10
mathbalarka said:
This part is good.
I don't follow your step $4$. $\alpha \cdot 1_A = f(\alpha)$ which is an element of $A$, NOT an element of $R$, so surely $\alpha$ can't be replaced by $\alpha \cdot 1_A$. That step is invalid. [Hint : You need to use axiom LA.5. to prove that $f(\alpha \beta) = f(\alpha) f(\beta)$]
This looks good.
You have only proved that element of $f(R)$ commute with each other, NOT $f(R) \subseteq Z(A)$. You need to show that $xf(y) = f(y)x$ for all $x \in A$ and $y \in R$ to accomplish this.
Thanks again, Mathbalarka ...

In the above post you write:

" ... ... I don't follow your step $4$. $\alpha \cdot 1_A = f(\alpha)$ which is an element of $A$, NOT an element of $R$, so surely $\alpha$ can't be replaced by $\alpha \cdot 1_A$. That step is invalid. [Hint : You need to use axiom LA.5. to prove that $f(\alpha \beta) = f(\alpha) f(\beta)$] ... ... "
Indeed, I believe you are correct again!
Rethinking the proof of $$( \alpha \beta ) f = ( \alpha f ) ( \beta f )
$$ where $$ \alpha , \beta \in R $$ we proceed as follows: $$( \alpha f ) ( \beta f )$$

$$= ( \alpha 1_A ) ( \beta 1_A )$$ ... ... by definition of fNow let $$r = \alpha 1_A = \alpha f \in A$$so then we have:$$( \alpha f ) ( \beta f ) $$

= $$r ( \beta 1_A )$$ ... ... where $$r, 1_A \in A$$

$$= \beta ( r 1_A)$$ ... ... by L.A.5

$$= \beta ( \alpha 1_A 1_A)$$

= $$\beta ( \alpha 1_A ) $$ ... ... since $$1_A 1_A = 1_A $$

= $$( \beta \alpha ) 1_A$$ ... ... by L.A.3

= $$( \alpha \beta) 1_A$$ ... ... since $$R$$ is commutative

= $$( \alpha \beta) f $$

Can someone please confirm that my analysis above is correct?

Peter
 
  • #11
Peter said:
Thanks again, Mathbalarka ...

In the above post you write:

" ... ... I don't follow your step $4$. $\alpha \cdot 1_A = f(\alpha)$ which is an element of $A$, NOT an element of $R$, so surely $\alpha$ can't be replaced by $\alpha \cdot 1_A$. That step is invalid. [Hint : You need to use axiom LA.5. to prove that $f(\alpha \beta) = f(\alpha) f(\beta)$] ... ... "
Indeed, I believe you are correct again!
Rethinking the proof of $$( \alpha \beta ) f = ( \alpha f ) ( \beta f )
$$ where $$ \alpha , \beta \in R $$ we proceed as follows: $$( \alpha f ) ( \beta f )$$

$$= ( \alpha 1_A ) ( \beta 1_A )$$ ... ... by definition of fNow let $$r = \alpha 1_A = \alpha f \in A$$so then we have:$$( \alpha f ) ( \beta f ) $$

= $$r ( \beta 1_A )$$ ... ... where $$r, 1_A \in A$$

$$= \beta ( r 1_A)$$ ... ... by L.A.5

$$= \beta ( \alpha 1_A 1_A)$$

= $$\beta ( \alpha 1_A ) $$ ... ... since $$1_A 1_A = 1_A $$

= $$( \beta \alpha ) 1_A$$ ... ... by L.A.3

= $$( \alpha \beta) 1_A$$ ... ... since $$R$$ is commutative

= $$( \alpha \beta) f $$

Can someone please confirm that my analysis above is correct?

Peter

This is also good.
 

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