Complaint Delete My Account: Unfriendly Forum

[Nigel1500]

Please delete my account. My only post has been deleted by ZapperZ and I'm not the kind of person who puts up with condescending comments like the PMs I've received from him. Frankly, I've been a member here for less than 6 hours and my experience has been very unfriendly. I'll find another forum.

 

[micromass]

I'm sorry that your first encounters with this forum are so negative.

We won't delete forum account on demand. However, we can ban you if you like. Is that option ok for you?

 

[Ryan_m_b]

If you have an issue with moderation you are welcome (and encouraged) to PM a mentor so that the other moderators can discuss it. They may side with you or they may not but leaving straight away isn't your only option.

 

[Borg]

I don't know what you posted but, the adminstrators don't usually delete posts without good reason. PF, like most forums has rules. The difference here is that the administrators do actively enforce those rules. So, anyone who wishes to post about how all of physics is wrong isn't going to last very long. If you haven't read the rules before you started posting, it's not surprising that your first post could have problems with it. Try not to be discouraged but learn from it. And, as Ryan said, you can PM another Mentor to discuss it. Most of the people here have been through it at one time or another - myself included.

 

[micromass]

I don't know what you posted but, the adminstrators don't usually delete posts without good reason. PF, like most forums has rules. The difference here is that the administrators do actively enforce those rules. So, anyone who wishes to post about how all of physics is wrong isn't going to last very long. If you haven't read the rules before you started posting, it's not surprising that your first post could have problems with it. Try not to be discouraged but learn from it. And, as Micromass said, you can PM another Mentor to discuss it. Most of the people here have been through it at one time or another - myself included.

True. I think everybody on this forum has received a warning or an infraction. Getting such a warning is really nothing to be angry about. We don't mean to bully you or annoy you. We just try to run a forum the best way we can. Try to give this forum another chance, it'll be a shame if only one warning discourages you from getting helpful responses.

 

[Andre]

No matter what who should have done when where, the point is: you are getting feedback. You're getting an opinion of somebody. Think about that for a bit.

edit: And then maybe reread the second paragraph of "What PF is.." previously known as the mission statement.

 

[CFDFEAGURU]

True. I think everybody on this forum has received a warning or an infraction. Getting such a warning is really nothing to be angry about. We don't mean to bully you or annoy you. We just try to run a forum the best way we can. Try to give this forum another chance, it'll be a shame if only one warning discourages you from getting helpful responses.

Yes, we all have done something in error at some point. No worries. Infraction free since 2009. :)

 

[Andre]

True. I think everybody on this forum has received a warning or an infraction. Getting such a warning is really nothing to be angry about.

I'm afraid you can't control the minds of the posters that way and maybe it's not their interpretation. Take for instance, this. Most fortunately for PF he changed his mind something like a year or two later, I seem to remember.

So PF should be grateful with this kind of feedback. It's the only way to look through the eyes of the costumers. Maybe that for one giving his opinion, there are many who don't and just leave quietly. And don't forget that there is no fence around PF, everybody is free to leave, if they don't like it and obviously that's what seems to be happening, judging the traffic ranking in Alexa.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22026080/pf-in-alexa.gif

So maybe the OP has a point?

 

[Andre]

And also remember this one. One person speaking up. How many lurkers and former active members agree with him?

 

[ImaLooser]

there is no fence around PF, everybody is free to leave, if they don't like it and obviously that's what seems to be happening, judging the traffic ranking in Alexa.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22026080/pf-in-alexa.gif

So maybe the OP has a point?

The graph is upside down, so readership is increasing.

 

[mfb]

As far as I know, Alexa does not have enough users to track pages up to a rank of ~10000 with that accuracy, individual users can have a significant impact on the ranks (and you can see the large short-term deviations as sign of that). In addition, moderation influences posts per day, while many visits here come from search engines (currently: 149 members, 3271 guests). Visits can be influenced by many other factors, posts per day are a better measurement for forum activity. Astronuc posted a graph of them here:

I see a dip around December/January, but that is common to many websites. Apart from that, no clear trend can be seen.

@ImaLooser: The graph is a traffic rank, a smaller value is better. Google, Wikipedia and similar pages have less than 10, for example.

 

[pftest]

Please delete my account. My only post has been deleted by ZapperZ and I'm not the kind of person who puts up with condescending comments like the PMs I've received from him. Frankly, I've been a member here for less than 6 hours and my experience has been very unfriendly. I'll find another forum.

Nigel, i fully agree with you. I've been a member here for awhile, and a member of many other forums. Let me put it politely, i don't know why they tolerate someone like that as a moderator. Well, of course i do understand, but its just so irrational.

Personally i don't go to PF much since i don't have any homework questions and there's not much else going on here. Boring.

 

[jedishrfu]

My first few forays into PF were disasters as well and I felt like quitting a couple of times. My initial reason for joining was to recover some of my Physics knowledge in preparation for grad school (yet to happen) by helping students with questions and now I just hang around and contribute.

The dissappearing threads really drove me crazy. I'd post something (that I spent some time on composing) to correct some students misconception only to find the thread gone with no explanation when I went to post my response.

Finally I discovered the hidden moderators and the need to keep PF as mainstream physics dropping all threads which started to go down the ducktrail.

Quackery issues still seem somewhat subjective. I wonder how can a student learn if something is quackery when a moderator terminates the thread before discussion can begin. Having been here long enough I do see the need expecially with the one-time poster whose trying push some wacky agenda in order to start a fight.

Perhaps we need some articles of each type of quackery and why its quackery so we can point them to it backed up by a mentor. Also it seems the quackery index is largely based on who said it like if Dr Susskind says it then its mainstream but if any non-scientist says it it must be quackery.

It would also have been helpful if we were redirected to some post or thread that gave the reason why a particular thread was dropped.

The second issue was the infraction warnings. To me this was very disheartening. I felt I was being punished for helping a student and found that I had given up too much of the answer or a reference I gave had the answer embedded in it or I had used textspeech in my response or ... It the kind of feeling you get when you give a kid some treat and he throws it on the ground because he's looking for something better (happened my son on a trip to China).

For awhile I refrained from even giving hints until I saw how other moderators did it. Other posters following me would give more and more of the solution so that the original poster got the whole solution anyways.

Havng gotten over all these PF peculiarities, keep up the good work and don't change things to much.

 

[ZapperZ]

Nigel, i fully agree with you. I've been a member here for awhile, and a member of many other forums. Let me put it politely, i don't know why they tolerate someone like that as a moderator. Well, of course i do understand, but its just so irrational.

Personally i don't go to PF much since i don't have any homework questions and there's not much else going on here. Boring.

Maybe you shouldn't be too quick to make definite judgement on the situation without learning about the whole thing. Your comment reflects poorly on you.

This member posted a HW/coursework-TYPE question in the main forum, despite the many warnings, signs, and instructions to post such things in the HW/Coursework forum. I deleted the post, as is customary, and instructed the member to post in the HW/Coursework forum.

The member replied that it wasn't a HW. He just wanted to solve the problem. I then replied to the member, and this is exactly what I wrote:

Please read this thread in its entirety:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=8128

.. mainly because (i) it explains to him why such a post still belongs in the HW/Coursework forum and (ii) he knows where to look for such instructions again if he forgets (I always try to teach people how to fish rather than give them fish!).

It was then this member took this the wrong way, and somehow, felt offended by that message for no apparent reason.

I had given the EXACT instruction before, and had never had anyone felt he/she being disrespected. In fact, many replied by apologizing for not reading the sticky thread!

I initially decided to not reply to this thread since the member had decided not to return. I see no point in criticizing this member, even when there was only a one-sided point of view in this whole situation that appears to make me look bad. But it seems that some of you are using this opportunity now to drag down the entire forum and its policy. Now THAT I will not stand for, especially when it is based on faulty "data" and dubious assumptions on what actually transpired here! You should be ashamed of yourselves! I also strongly suggest you re-examine your "methodology" in drawing up conclusions, because it is obvious that you are way to free to jump to such conclusions even without having sufficient information to form an opinion.

If you have such a low opinion of this forum, why the heck are you still here?

Zz.

 

[pftest]

Maybe you shouldn't be too quick to make definite judgement on the situation without learning about the whole thing. Your comment reflects poorly on your.

Ive seen it happen in dozens of topics (and i do barely visit this forum). I am not going to discuss it.

If you have such a low opinion of this forum, why the heck are you still here?

Can you check my stats as a mod? I barely visit this place.

 

[ZapperZ]

Ive seen it happen in dozens of topics (and i do barely visit this forum). I am not going to discuss it.

Can you check my stats as a mod? I barely visit this place.

Which makes you even less qualified to draw any kind of valid conclusions about this forum. It turns you into a troll, when you shoot off your opinion on something that you have no involvement in.

Zz.

 

[pftest]

Thats absolutely fascinating zapperz!
Btw, where is the list of qualifying criteria?

 

[ZapperZ]

Thats absolutely fascinating zapperz!
Btw, where is the list of qualifying criteria?

You are now spending way too much time in here. Remember, you're supposed to be somewhere else less "boring".

Zz.

 

[Astronuc]

As far as I know, Alexa does not have enough users to track pages up to a rank of ~10000 with that accuracy, individual users can have a significant impact on the ranks (and you can see the large short-term deviations as sign of that). In addition, moderation influences posts per day, while many visits here come from search engines (currently: 149 members, 3271 guests). Visits can be influenced by many other factors, posts per day are a better measurement for forum activity.

Yes - posts reflect registered member activity, and some members may visit but may not post. Non-registered guests browse various pages, and it's possible that guests are about an order of magnitude (or x10) the number of posts - roughly. So 15K +/- pageviews may be reasonable.

To the casual reader:

I think the PF rules are quite clear. One can re-read the guidelines, and if still in doubt, please ask.

I think that one should behave at PF HW and discussion forums as one would behave in a library or university department. We also have a more relaxed atmosphere in General Discussion and the various subforums.

Our goal is to provide thoughtful and technically accurate discussion on numerous topics in the mathematics, the sciences, engineering and technology, as well as to promote understanding of science and the scientific method.

 

[micromass]

My first few forays into PF were disasters as well and I felt like quitting a couple of times. My initial reason for joining was to recover some of my Physics knowledge in preparation for grad school (yet to happen) by helping students with questions and now I just hang around and contribute.

The dissappearing threads really drove me crazy. I'd post something (that I spent some time on composing) to correct some students misconception only to find the thread gone with no explanation when I went to post my response.

Finally I discovered the hidden moderators and the need to keep PF as mainstream physics dropping all threads which started to go down the ducktrail.

Quackery issues still seem somewhat subjective. I wonder how can a student learn if something is quackery when a moderator terminates the thread before discussion can begin. Having been here long enough I do see the need expecially with the one-time poster whose trying push some wacky agenda in order to start a fight.

Perhaps we need some articles of each type of quackery and why its quackery so we can point them to it backed up by a mentor. Also it seems the quackery index is largely based on who said it like if Dr Susskind says it then its mainstream but if any non-scientist says it it must be quackery.

It would also have been helpful if we were redirected to some post or thread that gave the reason why a particular thread was dropped.

The second issue was the infraction warnings. To me this was very disheartening. I felt I was being punished for helping a student and found that I had given up too much of the answer or a reference I gave had the answer embedded in it or I had used textspeech in my response or ... It the kind of feeling you get when you give a kid some treat and he throws it on the ground because he's looking for something better (happened my son on a trip to China).

For awhile I refrained from even giving hints until I saw how other moderators did it. Other posters following me would give more and more of the solution so that the original poster got the whole solution anyways.

Havng gotten over all these PF peculiarities, keep up the good work and don't change things to much.

Yes, I do remember your first days on PF as I was the one who gave you the warnings
Regardless of what many people think, we really don't enjoy giving out warnings and infractions. Certainly not for giving "too much" help. You really gave very good quality help and I really felt bad for giving you warnings for it. But the rules of PF are (in my opinion) really good rules and I think it's a good thing to uphold them. I just wish that the word "warning" gets changed into something less aggressive...

I'm really happy you stayed on PF because you're a very good member!

 

[jedishrfu]

Yes, I do remember your first days on PF as I was the one who gave you the warnings
Regardless of what many people think, we really don't enjoy giving out warnings and infractions. Certainly not for giving "too much" help. You really gave very good quality help and I really felt bad for giving you warnings for it. But the rules of PF are (in my opinion) really good rules and I think it's a good thing to uphold them. I just wish that the word "warning" gets changed into something less aggressive...

I'm really happy you stayed on PF because you're a very good member!

Thanks Micro!

 

[Turion]

Warning should be changed to a reminder.

The issue is with vBulletin's infraction system.

 

[micromass]

Warning should be changed to a reminder.

The issue is with vBulletin's infraction system.

I agree completely. But there are technical issues.

 

[CFDFEAGURU]

To the casual reader:

I think the PF rules are quite clear. One can re-read the guidelines, and if still in doubt, please ask.

I think that one should behave at PF HW and discussion forums as one would behave in a library or university department. We also have a more relaxed atmosphere in General Discussion and the various subforums.

Our goal is to provide thoughtful and technically accurate discussion on numerous topics in the mathematics, the sciences, engineering and technology, as well as to promote understanding of science and the scientific method.

Very good words of wisdom. :)

 

[mfb]

I just wish that the word "warning" gets changed into something less aggressive...

It is possible to change this.

So 15K +/- pageviews may be reasonable.

Where does this number come from? Based on my experience with another forum, I would expect more than 50k page impressions per day.

 

[StevieTNZ]

Don't worry - I've had issues with ZapperZ before and am quite aware of his nasty attitude.

 

[berkeman]

Don't worry - I've had issues with ZapperZ before and am quite aware of his nasty attitude.

That's interesting. Out of your 2 pages of warnings and infractions, ZapperZ has only given you one of the warnings...

 

[micromass]

Don't worry - I've had issues with ZapperZ before and am quite aware of his nasty attitude.

If you have any specific issues with a mentor, then you should PM another mentor or an admin about it. If you simply say "he has a nasty attitude", then there's really not much information and we don't really know what's wrong. It's like saying "PF is stupid" without any extra explanation or suggestions on how we can improve things.

That said, I realize that Zz has a no-nonsense attitude which many people may find annoying. I actually think that that is exactly what makes him a very capable mentor.

 

[StevieTNZ]

That's interesting. Out of your 2 pages of warnings and infractions, ZapperZ has only given you one of the warnings...

I hardly think that is anything to go by.

 

[StevieTNZ]

If you have any specific issues with a mentor, then you should PM another mentor or an admin about it. If you simply say "he has a nasty attitude", then there's really not much information and we don't really know what's wrong. It's like saying "PF is stupid" without any extra explanation or suggestions on how we can improve things.

That said, I realize that Zz has a no-nonsense attitude which many people may find annoying. I actually think that that is exactly what makes him a very capable mentor.

I would have, had I known I had that option back then. But I didn't.

 

[Evo]

Don't worry - I've had issues with ZapperZ before and am quite aware of his nasty attitude.

Since the OP decided to air his offenses, in Zz's defense, I saw the pm's between Nigel and Zz, and the only pm Zz sent was the link to the rules that explain why the action was taken. It was Nigel that responded inappropriately, Zz did not allow himself to get dragged into an argument. It appears Nigel may be angry that he could not goad Zz into an argument.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

The OPs complaint has been noted and a response given. Time to lock.

 

[Astronuc]

It is possible to change this.

Where does this number come from? Based on my experience with another forum, I would expect more than 50k page impressions per day.

Perhaps I should rephrase my comment to state that 15k is probably not an overestimate. I'm not sure how Alexa generates the numbers, whether it's about unique persons as opposed to individuals visiting multiple times per day. We have yet to break 10k persons on-line at one time.

Clearly, a lot of folks find value at PF, and the majority of registered members seem to have no problem complying with the guidelines. So we must be doing something right.