Alerts for Thread Deletions

[Danger]

Is there some way to automatically provide "Alert" notification when one's thread is fully or partially deleted? For instance, Berkeman recently approached me about a thread wherein I had posted a hint that turned out to be more hindrance than help. We agreed that it should be deleted for that reason, and he then sent me an "Alert" to notify me when it was done. That was him, though, not the software.
All too often, I find myself being challenged or asked to elaborate upon something that I had posted, often with a partial quote, and then when I go back to find out what the context was it's gone. That's very confusing and not just a little irritating. Alternatively, at the very least, if a post is deleted all future reference to it should be as well.

 

[Evo]

Alternatively, at the very least, if a post is deleted all future reference to it should be as well.

I don't get what you are suggesting.

 

[jedishrfu]

He wants to get a notification that a thread he's following has been deleted,

but since he's living the life of Danger he doesn't unless someone sends him one.

 

[DaveC426913]

Deleted thread? Or deleted post?

I got the impression he means a post in the thread has been deleted.

Furthermore, if someone else quotes the offending post before it is deleted, the quote should be deleted too.

So, a thread has a post n in it.
For whatever reason, the post n gets deleted. (In Danger's case, misinformation.)
A notice should be sent to the poster of post n, saying that his post was deleted.
And post n+1, made by a third user, which quoted post n, is now moot, and should be deleted. (Otherwise, the offending content still exists in the thread).

There's some logic to this in the case of homework threads.

 

[Evo]

Deleted thread? Or deleted post?

I got the impression he means a post in the thread has been deleted.

Furthermore, if someone else quotes the offending post before it is deleted, the quote should be deleted too.

So, a thread has a post n in it.
For whatever reason, the post n gets deleted. (In Danger's case, misinformation.)
A notice should be sent to the poster of post n, saying that his post was deleted.
And post n+1, made by a third user, which quoted post n, is now moot, and should be deleted. (Otherwise, the offending content still exists in the thread).

There's some logic to this in the case of homework threads.

That's how we handle it. If someone quoted the post after Berkeman deleted it, Berkeman would have no way of knowing. It would be up to the poster whose post was deleted to report it so it can be removed.

 

[DaveC426913]

That's how we handle it. If someone quoted the post after Berkeman deleted it, Berkeman would have no way of knowing. It would be up to the poster whose post was deleted to report it so it can be removed.

Yes. Danger's request is that, if the alert were to be automated (following a manual deletion) it could also essentially tapeworm through the thread to find quotes and delete them. (quotes are uniquely labeled to refer back to the quoted post).

The puzzle pieces are all there to do it, but the effort to program it are likely prohibitive.

 

[Evo]

Yes. Danger's request is that, if the alert were to be automated (following a manual deletion) it could also essentially tapeworm through the thread to find quotes and delete them. (quotes are uniquely labeled to refer back to the quoted post).

The puzzle pieces are all there to do it, but the effort to program it are likely prohibitive.

But if the member quotes without a numbered reference, which is more often than not, they won't be detected.

 

[Danger]

I don't get what you are suggesting.

Dave nailed it, except in the case that I cited it wasn't misinformation so much as my hint was so cryptic that it might have lead the asker in the wrong direction, and Berkeman did inform me of his own accord. That's actually how I got the idea that it should be automatic.
An example more in line with this request regards that thread of yours that I inadvertently destroyed by steering it from your witnessing of a shooting aftermath into a political debate. One of my posts was quoted by someone of ill intent and I went back in search of more ammo only to find that it was gone. When I asked, you said that you had deleted it because it was in response to another post that you had deleted. That made sense. The one that quoted mine in turn, though, was still there. Since then the whole thread is gone, so that particular instance is irrelevant.

It would be up to the poster whose post was deleted to report it so it can be removed.

What I was getting at is that I have no way of knowing that one of my posts has been deleted unless I happen to go looking for it for some reason. I just think that in such a case it would be nice to know so I can at least ask as to the reason for the deletion.

Yes. Danger's request is that, if the alert were to be automated (following a manual deletion) it could also essentially tapeworm through the thread to find quotes and delete them. (quotes are uniquely labeled).

That isn't actually my request. I never thought of it, but it's a good idea. (I don't know how that could be implemented, though.) I meant "automated" only in the sense that I now get an alert when someone quotes me or likes me, or a new one that I've never seen before just popped up a couple of times in this post where a notification appears while I'm composing that someone has posted while I'm doing so and gives me the chance to read it before continuing. That has happened to me countless times, and this is the first time that I've been warned that it was happening. Whoever came up with that little gem has my undying gratitude.

edit: Except that Evo's last post was done while I was composing this, and I didn't get a notification of that one. What's up?
2nd edit: I added a sentence in response to Dave.

 

[Evo]

My last post quoted Dave.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I just think that in such a case it would be nice to know so I can at least ask as to the reason for the deletion.

Easy. If you have a deleted message and a mentor did not PM you, it was deleted because a thread or part of a thread had gone downhill and yours was included. There might not be anything wrong with your message in the thread, but if the messages around it need to go, yours might well need to go too because it makes no sense in isolation.

You can print this out and tape it to your monitor and now you know why. ;)

 

[Evo]

I remember before I became mentor, I had worked for a couple of hours researching resources to dispute a crackpot, apparently I did so well that chroot deleted the entire thread because I proved the Op was a crank. I went crazy the next day trying to find it. I knew that I had nailed the guy, I wanted to gloat in my victory, and it was gone.

 

[Danger]

My last post quoted Dave.

So that happens if someone quotes me while I'm writing, but not posts something else? That's okay.

If you have a deleted message and a mentor did not PM you, it was deleted because a thread or part of a thread had gone downhill and yours was included. There might not be anything wrong with your thread, but if the messages around it need to go, yours might well need to go too because it makes no sense in isolation.

That's really kind of beside the point. I've had a lot of other posts go missing over the years, with no explanation. I'll give a fictional and harmless example: I wish someone "Happy Birthday" in her Happy Birthday thread and it gets deleted. Later she PM's me with hurt feelings because I didn't wish her Happy Birthday when all of her other friends did. I tell her that I did, and then go back to check and it's gone. Without her PM, I would never have known that it had been deleted and she might go on thinking that I didn't like her any more. That's a silly situation, but I think that it illustrates what I'm getting at.

You can print this out and tape it to your monitor and now you know why.

No, I can't; I don't have a printer.

edit: And now, somehow I can't quote Evo's last post that was sneaked in while I was doing this one. The quotes show up when I hit "insert quotes", but "insert these quotes" button in that window doesn't do anything. I hope that's an isolated incident. Anyhow, Evo, that last post of yours is exactly what I was talking about, except that I meant only my own posts as opposed to a whole thread.
2nd edit: I think that I figured out why the quote thing buggered up. I was trying to open a second response window that I could quote into while I was still in "edit" mode for this one.

 

[Bystander]

Murphy's law, 73rd corollary: "The probability of a post being deleted is inversely proportional to the professional pride the wordsmith/author takes in it."

 

[Danger]

So that happens if someone quotes me while I'm writing, but not posts something else? That's okay.

I should have specified that I wasn't referring to the normal Alert that turns red at the top of the screen and tells me that I've been quoted when I click on it. This just popped up right in the typing window and said that someone had "posted" (not "quoted") since I started typing.

edit: I just this moment noticed how jaunty I look with that nice red sash across my forehead. I should start more threads.

 

[jedishrfu]

Perhaps we need a feature that as we're trying to post but its being deleted the text of the quote will begin to fade away...

kind of like what happened to Michael J Fox's family photo in Back to the Future...

 

[Vanadium 50]

You're getting all worked up over a fictional example?

There are three reasons messages get removed:

1. The message itself is troublesome, in which case the mentor will PM you.
2. The message is in a troublesome thread.
3. Someone made a mistake - and I include technical things like database problems here.

If it's #3, you're not going to get a PM. That's the nature of a "mistake". If it's #1, you will, and if it's #2, it's covered above.

 

[Danger]

You're getting all worked up over a fictional example?

Of course not. I made that up because I can't remember the specific instance wherein it was something like that. If it's a case of your #3 point, it would still be nice to know about it so I can go back and learn from it.

 

[mfb]

Yes. Danger's request is that, if the alert were to be automated (following a manual deletion) it could also essentially tapeworm through the thread to find quotes and delete them. (quotes are uniquely labeled to refer back to the quoted post).

What happens if the post does include a quote, but has a second part completely unrelated to the quote?
There is no way to let the forum decide what to delete. That's always the task of mentors.

 

[berkeman]

I didn't read the whole thread, so @Danger your original question may have been answered already. When Mentors delete a post, we now have a check-box we can check to provide the poster notification of the deletion. The standard option is no [strike]deletion[/strike] notification, but many of us click the check-box and provide a brief note about why the post is being deleted. :)

 

[Danger]

many of us click the check-box and provide a brief note about why the post is being deleted.

Alright, then. Excellent. Now, all Mentors should check it. It wouldn't even require a note; just a pointer or link to where it was.

 

[Nugatory]

All too often, I find myself being challenged or asked to elaborate upon something that I had posted, often with a partial quote, and then when I go back to find out what the context was it's gone. That's very confusing and not just a little irritating. Alternatively, at the very least, if a post is deleted all future reference to it should be as well.

That's generally how it works. However, there is a window that cannot be easily closed:
1) A posts something
2) B starts writing a reply quoting the post
3) Mentor removes A's post.
4) Mentor removes all followup posts quoting the removed post.
5) B clicks submit and a new pot quoting the deleted post appears.
And as well as that window, the mentors are not infallible so there is the possibility of error/oversight at step 4 above.

Generally if you find that a conversation is being messed up... report it so that we know that all is not well, and we'll be able to find a reasonable resolution.

 

[Danger]

Generally if you find that a conversation is being messed up... report it so that we know that all is not well,

I appreciate everything in your post, but it still doesn't address the issue of me not knowing about a deletion of one of my posts if I no longer follow that thread.

 

[m k]

Does the software support anykind of track_changes_on_edit or similar function?

Some do.

 

[Danger]

Does the software support anykind of track_changes_on_edit or similar function?

Some do.

That would be perfect!