Delta function of two variable function

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the representation of the Dirac delta function for a function of two variables, specifically how to express \(\delta(f(x,y))\) based on known identities for one-variable functions. Participants explore various interpretations and mathematical formulations related to this topic.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference the identity for one-variable functions: \(\delta(f(x)) = \sum \frac{\delta(x-x_0)}{f'(x_0)}\) and inquire how this extends to two variables.
  • There is a question regarding the definition of the delta function being discussed, with clarification that it refers to the Dirac delta function.
  • One participant challenges the identity for one variable, asking for clarification on the sum and suggesting that the delta function for a single variable is simply \(\delta[f(x)] = f(0)\) and for two variables \(\delta[f(x,y)] = f(0,0)\).
  • Another participant emphasizes the need for a proper understanding of the delta function as a composition with a function, suggesting that \(\delta(f(x))\) should be viewed as \(\delta(u)\) evaluated at \(u=f(x)\).
  • There is a discussion about the implications of the function \(f\) being injective and how to handle cases where \(f\) has multiple zeros, with one participant providing a mathematical derivation involving test functions.
  • One participant suggests that if \(f\) vanishes at multiple points, it complicates the definition of the original formula and questions its motivation.
  • Another participant proposes that the delta function is non-zero only when its argument is zero, indicating that the original formula identifies points where the argument is non-zero.
  • A reference to Wikipedia is made, suggesting that the sum may need to be replaced with an integral over the subspace of the domain that maps to zero, introducing complexity into the formulation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity and applicability of the identities related to the Dirac delta function in multiple dimensions. There is no consensus on how to extend the one-variable identity to two variables, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the motivations and definitions involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity introduced when \(f\) has multiple zeros and the need for careful definitions when extending identities from one variable to two variables. There are unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the behavior of the delta function in higher dimensions.

mimmim
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Hi
Iknow that if we have delta function of one variables function, then we can write it as:

\delta (f(x)) = \sum \frac{\delta(x-x0)}{f'(x0)}

but how we can write a function of two variables:

\delta (f(x,y))
 
Physics news on Phys.org
What exactly do you mean by delta function? Are you referring to dirac delta function or something else?
 
Frogeyedpeas said:
What exactly do you mean by delta function? Are you referring to dirac delta function or something else?


Dirac delta function
 
mimmim said:
Hi
Iknow that if we have delta function of one variables function, then we can write it as:
\delta (f(x)) = \sum \frac{\delta(x-x0)}{f'(x0)}

I am not aware of such an identity. What is the sum over?

The dirac delta function for a single variable is simply ##\delta [f(x)] = f(0) ##. In two variables it would be ##\delta [f(x,y)] = f(0,0)##. Of course you can shift the delta function to any point off the origin as well.
 
theorem4.5.9 said:
I am not aware of such an identity. What is the sum over?
This is a well-known and easily provable identity. The sum is over the zeroes x0 of f.
theorem4.5.9 said:
The dirac delta function for a single variable is simply ##\delta [f(x)] = f(0) ##. In two variables it would be ##\delta [f(x,y)] = f(0,0)##. Of course you can shift the delta function to any point off the origin as well.
I think there's some confusion here. A distribution can indeed be represented as a linear functional which takes (test) functions as inputs. But here, when we say ##\delta (f(x)) ##, we don't mean the functional ##\delta ## evaluated at the function f. Rather, informally we are thinking of the Dirac delta as a function of numbers, and we are forming the composition of the Dirac delta function and the function f. So we mean the "function" ##\delta (u)## evaluated at the number u=f(x).
 
lugita15 said:
Rather, informally we are thinking of the Dirac delta as a function of numbers, and we are forming the composition of the Dirac delta function and the function f. So we mean the "function" ##\delta (u)## evaluated at the number u=f(x).

One way to go about this is by the observation that every real number has an associated constant function g_c (t) = c. Trivally every constant function is a distribution. Then \delta(f(x)) = \delta \circ f \circ g_x and if the resulting expression is also a constant function you can use the duality backwards to "claim" \delta(f(x)) \in \mathbb{R}.

I remember hearing about this in a lecture some time in my undergraduate years, but I haven't seen it mentioned in the literature.
 
lugita15 said:
This is a well-known and easily provable identity. The sum is over the zeroes x0 of f.

Would you mind elaborating on this? I've worked out the case where ##f## is injective below, but I don't see how one would define composition where ##f## vanishes at more than one point.


If ##d, g, f## are test functions and ##f## is injective and ##f(x_0)=0## then
$$\langle d\circ f, g \rangle = \int d\circ f(x)\cdot g(x) dx $$. A u-substitution yields
$$ = \int\frac{d(u)\cdot g\circ f^{-1}(u)}{f'(f^{-1}(u))}du = \left\langle d(u), \frac{ g\circ f^{-1}(u)}{f'(f^{-1}(u))} \right\rangle$$

Thus this should be taken as the definition for composition of a general distribution with such an ##f##. Inserting the dirac delta then, I see that
$$\langle \delta\circ f,g\rangle = \frac{ g\circ f^{-1}(0)}{f'(f^{-1}(0))} = \frac{ g(x_0)}{f'(x_0)} = \left\langle\frac{\delta_{x_0}}{f'(x_0)} ,g\right\rangle $$
which recovers the formula (excusing my sloppy u-substitution).

To reiterate my question, if ##f## vanishes at several points, what motivation is there to define the OP's formula?
 
theorem4.5.9 said:
To reiterate my question, if ##f## vanishes at several points, what motivation is there to define the OP's formula?
One approach you might try is to calculate in a similar fashion ##\delta (f(x)g(x))##, where f(x) has a single zero at x1 and g(x) has a single zero at x2.
 
  • #10
theorem4.5.9 said:
To reiterate my question, if ##f## vanishes at several points, what motivation is there to define the OP's formula?

The delta function is non-zero only when it's input is zero. The OP's formula picks out the points where the argument of the delta function is non-zero and expands the expression into delta functions centred at these points.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K