kent davidge
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Why does the definition of a differential form requires a totally antisymmetric tensor?
The discussion revolves around the definition of differential forms and the necessity of using totally antisymmetric tensors in this context. Participants explore the mathematical foundations, implications, and examples related to the properties of differential forms, particularly focusing on multi-linearity and the role of antisymmetry in integration and differentiation.
Participants express differing views on whether the definition of differential forms necessitates the use of tensors, leading to an unresolved discussion regarding the foundational aspects of differential forms and their applications.
The discussion includes various mathematical assumptions and definitions that may not be universally agreed upon, particularly regarding the nature of tensors and their relationship to differential forms. The exploration of examples and properties remains contingent on these definitions.
Because that is how we define a differential form. It is a definition that turns out to be useful in describing several things, but ultimately it is just that - a definition.kent davidge said:Why does the definition of a differential form requires a totally antisymmetric tensor?
It doesn't require tensors.kent davidge said:Why does the definition of a differential form requires a totally antisymmetric tensor?
Well tensors are defined as multilinear forms (not necessarily antisymmetric ones as the alternating forms in Cartan calculus), i.e., a tensor of rank ##n## is a linear map from ##V^n## into the field of scalars of ##V## (field meant here in the algebraic sense).fresh_42 said:It doesn't require tensors.
It requires multi-linearity (linear in each argument) and alternating. The latter is equivalent to ##d(X,X)=0##.
Tensors are useful, when you try to make sure, that the definition of a multi-linear object actually defines something, i.e. something that exists, rather than being a funny definition, that describes the empty set.
The reason for this is algebraic and somehow abstract, so I leave it here in the relativity section. For short: tensors are a kind of a universal multi-linear object, and special multi-linear objects like differential forms can be seen as the image under a certain projection. Even shorter: Tensors are a skeleton key.
Because a directed volume element spanned by n vectors is naturally described by an antisymmetric tensor of rank n.kent davidge said:Thanks for answering. Why integration and differentiation in general is chosen to be performed with antisymmetric(0,n) tensors ? Why not on other type of tensors?
Could you give me a simple (maybe a 3-dimensional) example?Orodruin said:Because a directed volume element spanned by n vectors is naturally described by an antisymmetric tensor of rank n.
Here's a 2-D example... a parallelogram formed from two vectors.kent davidge said:Could you give me a simple (maybe a 3-dimensional) example?
In your first example in R³, $$\mathrm{d} u \mathrm{d} v \frac{\partial \vec{x}}{\partial u} \times \frac{\partial \vec{x}}{\partial v}= -\mathrm{d} u \mathrm{d} v \frac{\partial \vec{x}}{\partial v} \times \frac{\partial \vec{x}}{\partial u}.$$ Right? So is it a antisymmetric tensor?vanhees71 said:Take a surface ##\vec{x}=\vec{x}(u,v)## in ##\mathbb{R}^3##. Then the surface-normal vector is determined by the parallelogram defined by the infinitesimal pieces of the coordinate lines ##v=\text{const}## and ##u=\text{const}##. The magnitude and direction is given by the cross product, i.e., you have
$$\mathrm{d}^2 \vec{a}=\mathrm{d} u \mathrm{d} v \frac{\partial \vec{x}}{\partial u} \times \frac{\partial \vec{x}}{\partial v}.$$
Note that the orientation, i.e., the direction of the normal vector depends in which order you choose the indepenent variables ##u## and ##v## (i.e., you have defined an oriented surface).
In an arbitrary (pseudo-)Riemannian manifold hypersurface elements are defined in the analogous general covariant way with help of the Levi-Civita tensor,
$$\epsilon^{\mu_1 \mu_2 \ldots \mu_d}=\sqrt{|g|} \Delta^{\mu_1 \ldots \mu_d},$$
where ##\Delta^{\mu_1 \ldots \mu_d}## is the totally antisymmetric Levi-Civita symbol with ##\Delta^{12\ldots d}=1## and ##g=\mathrm{det} (g_{\mu \nu})## the determinant of the (pseudo-)metric components. A ##k##-dimensional (##k \leq d##) hyper-surface element is defined by some function ##q^{\mu}(u_1,\ldots,u_k)## and the corresponding integral measure by
$$\mathrm{d}^k \Sigma^{\mu_{k+1}\ldots \mu_d}=\mathrm{d} q_1 \cdots \mathrm{d} q_d \epsilon_{\mu_1\ldots \mu_d} \frac{\partial q^{\mu_1}}{\partial u_1} \cdots \frac{\partial q^{\mu_k}}{\partial u_k}.$$
Where does the antisymmetry property comes in this situation?robphy said:Here's a 2-D example... a parallelogram formed from two vectors.
If you specify an ordered-pair with those two vectors, then you have specified an oriented parallelogram.
The size of the parallelogram can be expressed using the determinant formed using the components of the vectors [although it could be expressed in a coordinate-free way].
kent davidge said:Where does the antisymmetry property comes in this situation?
Yes, it is a contraction between the two tangent vectors ##\partial\vec x/\partial u## and ##\partial\vec x/\partial v## with the anti-symmetric tensor ##\epsilon_{ijk}##.kent davidge said:So is it a antisymmetric tensor?
kent davidge said:Thanks for answering. Why integration and differentiation in general is chosen to be performed with antisymmetric(0,n) tensors ? Why not on other type of tensors?
Thank you for your detailed explanation. So the conclusion is that \mathcal{A}_{\mu \alpha} must be antisymmetric, since A² is (in this case) always positive, so that if we change μ and α, we have (\mathcal{A}^{\alpha \mu})(\mathcal{A}_{\alpha \mu})= (\mathcal{-A}^{\mu \alpha})(\mathcal{-A}_{\mu \alpha}) in order to get the same value for A². Am I right?stevendaryl said:The simplest case to understand is integration over a curved 2-D manifold with a metric. And let me assume a Riemannian metric (so we can assume that the square of any vector is defined and positive). The case for an indefinite metric (so the square of a vector can be negative or zero) and for higher-dimensional manifolds will be left as an exercise.
Using the usual definition of an integral, if we are integrating a scalar function F over the 2-D space, we can approximate it by dividing space up into lots of little parallelograms, and compute
\int F = \sum_i \mathcal{A}_i F(\mathcal{P}_i)
View attachment 107924
where \mathcal{A}_i is the area of parallelogram number i, and F(\mathcal{P}_i) is the value of F at the point \mathcal{P}_i somewhere inside the parallelogram. So integrating a scalar function over a 2-D manifold is reduced to the problem of computing the area of a tiny parallelogram.
The rule for the area of a parallelogram in good old Euclidean geometry is just:
\mathcal{A} = base \times height
So if A is the displacement vector (which is approximately well-defined for small displacements, even in curved space) for one side of a small parallelogram, and B is the displacement vector for the other side, then the area will be:
View attachment 107925
\mathcal{A} = |A| |B^\perp|
where B^\perp is the component of B perpendicular to A. (And where |X| means the square-root of X \cdot X, which is real and positive for Riemannian manifolds, which we're assuming.)
We can compute |B^\perp| in terms of the vector dot-product. |B^\perp| = \sqrt{B \cdot B - \frac{(A \cdot B)^2}{A \cdot A}}. So we have:
\mathcal{A} = |A| \sqrt{B \cdot B - \frac{(A \cdot B)^2}{A \cdot A}} = \sqrt{(A \cdot A) (B \cdot B) - (A \cdot B)^2}
Or squaring both sides gives:
\mathcal{A}^2 = (A \cdot A) (B \cdot B) - (A \cdot B)^2
At this point, let me introduce the alternative way of writing vector dot products. The dot product X \cdot Y can be written in terms of the metric tensor g_{\mu \nu} as X \cdot Y = \sum_{\mu \nu} g_{\mu \nu} X^\mu Y^\nu \equiv X^\mu Y_\mu, where Y_\mu \equiv \sum_{\nu} g_{\mu \nu} Y^\nu. So in this notation, we can write:
\mathcal{A}^2 = A^\mu A_\mu B^\alpha B_\alpha - A^\mu B_\mu A^\alpha B_\alpha
Now, introduce the two-index tensor \mathcal{A}^{\mu \alpha} \equiv A^\mu B^\alpha - A^\alpha B^\mu. We can prove the following identity:
\mathcal{A}^{\mu \alpha} \mathcal{A}_{\mu \alpha} = (A^\mu B^\alpha - A^\alpha B^\mu)(A_\mu B_\alpha - A_\alpha B_\mu) = A^\mu A_\mu B^\alpha B_\alpha - A^\mu B_\mu A^\alpha B_\alpha - A^\alpha B_\alpha A^\mu B_\mu + A^\alpha A_\alpha B^\mu B_\mu = (A \cdot A) (B \cdot B) - (A \cdot B) (A \cdot B) - (A \cdot B) (A \cdot B) + (A \cdot A) (B \cdot B) = 2 ((A \cdot A) (B \cdot B) - (A \cdot B) (A \cdot B)) = 2 \mathcal{A}^2
So we have:
\mathcal{A}^2 = \frac{1}{2}\mathcal{A}^{\mu \alpha} \mathcal{A}_{\mu \alpha}. (The factor of 1/2 is a little worrisome, but I think it's because the implicit summing over \mu, \nu, \alpha, \beta double-counts; the sum includes the non-summed term A^\mu A_\mu B^\alpha B_\alpha and A^\alpha A_\alpha B^\mu B_\mu for each \alpha and \mu.)
So the area tensor for the parallelogram of vectors A and B is antisymmetric.