Differentials of Entropy for Air and Water at Different Temperatures

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on calculating the changes in entropy for air and water at varying temperatures using integrals. There is confusion regarding the formulation of the integral for the thermal entropy change, with participants pointing out that having two 'd' terms in a single integral is incorrect. The correct expression for the thermal entropy change is debated, with suggestions that it can be simplified to involve heat transfer divided by ambient temperature. Additionally, the need to express entropy changes in integral form is emphasized, particularly in relation to the behavior of water during heating and cooling. The conversation concludes with a suggestion to compare the differentials of entropy for air and water across the temperature range.
yamata1
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Homework Statement
A bottle of water is removed from a cupboard at the initial temperature ##T_i##. In the ambient air of constant temperature ##T_0##, it warms or cools to reach equilibrium at the final temperature
##T_f = T_0##. The heat capacity of the plastic of the bottle is neglected compared to that of the water.
The thermal expansion of the water is also neglected.


a)The heat capacity C of the water depends on the temperature. Express entropy variations
##\Delta S## of water, ##\Delta S_{th}## of the air and ##\Delta S_{univ}## of the universe in the form of integrals.

b) Show that, whatever the temperatures, ##\Delta S_{univ}\geq 0##.
Relevant Equations
##dS=\frac{dQ}{T}##
for a)##\Delta S=\mp \int_{T_i}^{T_0}\frac{C(T)}{T}dT## and ##\Delta S_{th}=\int_{T_i}^{T_0}\frac{dQ}{T_0}dT## so ##S_{univ}=\Delta S_{th}+\Delta S##.

What is ##dQ## equal to ? I don't know how to answer question b).

Thank you for your help.
 
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Your integral for ##\Delta S_{th}## makes no sense. You cannot have two 'd' terms in a single integral.
Hint: you do not need that integral at all.
 
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haruspex said:
Your integral for ##\Delta S_{th}## makes no sense. You cannot have two 'd' terms in a single integral.
Hint: you do not need that integral at all.
Indeed,Is ##\Delta S_{th}=\mp\frac{Q}{T_0}=\mp\int_{T_i}^{T_0}\frac{C(T)}{T_0}dT ## correct ?
If so then question b) is ## \Delta S_{univ}=\int_{T_i}^{T_0}C(T)(\frac{1}{T}-\frac{1}{T_0})dT ## when the water heats up and ## \Delta S_{univ}=\int_{T_i}^{T_0}C(T)(\frac{1}{T_0}-\frac{1}{T})dT ## when it cools off .Both of these integrals are positive since C(T) is strictly positive.
 
haruspex said:
Hint: you do not need that integral at all.
True, but the question (part a) asks to express the entropy changes "in the form of integrals."
 
yamata1 said:
Indeed,Is ##\Delta S_{th}=\mp\frac{Q}{T_0}=\mp\int_{T_i}^{T_0}\frac{C(T)}{T_0}dT ## correct ?
If so then question b) is ## \Delta S_{univ}=\int_{T_i}^{T_0}C(T)(\frac{1}{T}-\frac{1}{T_0})dT ## when the water heats up and ## \Delta S_{univ}=\int_{T_i}^{T_0}C(T)(\frac{1}{T_0}-\frac{1}{T})dT ## when it cools off .Both of these integrals are positive since C(T) is strictly positive.
Since the ambient temperature does not change you cannot express the air's entropy change as an integral dT. What is the other option?
 
kuruman said:
True, but the question (part a) asks to express the entropy changes "in the form of integrals."
Ah, quite so.
 
Compare differentials dS for the air and for the water thruout the range of T.
 
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