Dispersion: expansion of wavenumber as function of omega

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of dispersion in wave propagation, specifically examining the relationship between wavenumber (k) and angular frequency (ω) in different contexts, such as optics and quantum mechanics. Participants explore mathematical expansions of k as a function of ω and vice versa, while considering the implications of group velocity and group velocity dispersion.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents expansions for k(ω) and ω(k), linking the first derivatives to group velocity and the second derivatives to group velocity dispersion.
  • Another participant discusses the case of constant group velocity and its implications for dispersion, questioning the behavior when group velocity or dispersion approaches zero.
  • A third participant clarifies that the second derivatives of ω and k are not simply inverses of each other, emphasizing that they represent different aspects of dispersion.
  • There is a reiteration that both k(ω) and ω(k) are valid representations of the same relationship, but doubts remain regarding the reciprocal nature of the first derivatives and their implications.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationships between the derivatives of k and ω, particularly regarding the second derivatives and their implications for dispersion. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing interpretations of the mathematical relationships.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in understanding the behavior of dispersion in cases where group velocity or group velocity dispersion is zero, leading to potential infinities in the mathematical expressions.

EmilyRuck
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Hi!
Dealing about wave propagation in a medium and dispersion, wavenumber k can be considered as a function of \omega (as done in Optics) or vice-versa (as maybe done more often in Quantum Mechanics). In the first case,

k (\omega) \simeq k(\omega_0) + (\omega - \omega_0) \displaystyle \left. \frac{dk(\omega)}{d \omega} \right|_{\omega = \omega_0} + \frac{1}{2} (\omega - \omega_0)^2 \left. \frac{d^2 k(\omega)}{d\omega^2} \right|_{\omega = \omega_0}

where first derivative is the inverse of group velocity 1/v_g and the second derivative is (maybe?) inverse of group velocity dispersion 1 / \alpha.

In the second case,

\omega (k) \simeq \omega(k_0) + (k - k_0) \displaystyle \left. \frac{d\omega(k)}{d k} \right|_{k = k_0} + \frac{1}{2} (k - k_0)^2 \left. \frac{d^2 \omega(k)}{dk^2} \right|_{k = k_0}

where the first derivative is the group velocity itself v_g and the second derivative is the group velocity dispersion itself \alpha.

But what about the limit-cases, when for some reason v_g = 0 or \alpha = 0? The latter case is maybe more common: it would imply that, in a medium, for a signal whose group velocity doesn't vary with frequency, the second order term in the k(\omega) expansion has an infinite coefficient.
 
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Considering the simplest case, the one regarding plane waves,

k = \omega / v

with v constant.

d\omega/dk = v = v_g is the group velocity and dk/d\omega = 1/v = 1/v_g is the reciprocal of the group velocity.

d^2 \omega/dk^2 = \alpha = 0 is the group velocity dispersion; so, the reciprocal of the group velocity dispersion should be 1 / \alpha \to \infty. But also d^2 k / d \omega^2 = 1/\alpha (?) = 0.

How is it possible!?
 
\frac{d^2\omega}{dk^2} does not equal \left[\frac{d^2 k}{d\omega^2}\right]^{-1}, as you have demonstrated.
\omega'' is the dispersion. In either optics or QM, you can use \omega(k) or k(\omega).
They are just two different ways of expressing the same mathematical function.
 
Meir Achuz said:
In either optics or QM, you can use \omega(k) or k(\omega).
They are just two different ways of expressing the same mathematical function.

Ok!

Meir Achuz said:
\frac{d^2\omega}{dk^2} does not equal \left[\frac{d^2 k}{d\omega^2}\right]^{-1}, as you have demonstrated.

However, as regards the first derivative, d\omega / dk = v_g and dk/d\omega = 1/v_g, so they are exactly reciprocal. If you take the unit measures, they are reciprocal too. So, here is still my doubt.
 

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