Divergence-free polarization of dielectric

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the physical implications of a non-vanishing polarization field that has a vanishing divergence within the context of laser-matter interactions. Participants explore the nature of polarization in dielectrics, particularly when the constitutive relations are non-trivial and do not imply direct proportionality between polarization and electric fields. The conversation touches on theoretical models, the behavior of bound charges, and the evolution of polarization fields according to Maxwell's equations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether a divergence-free polarization field can still be considered a dielectric and in what contexts such a situation might arise.
  • One participant asserts that the divergence of polarization corresponds to the density of bound charges, suggesting that a non-vanishing polarization could describe magnetic effects even in neutral media.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on the relationship between applied electric fields and the creation of bound charges, particularly in the context of a standard plate capacitor with a dielectric.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of quantum mechanics on the concepts of bound and free charges, with some arguing that these distinctions are not clear-cut in modern physics.
  • One participant introduces a model where the polarization field is treated as an anharmonic oscillator driven by the electric field, raising questions about the geometry of electric, magnetic, and polarization fields in various applications.
  • Another participant mentions the Lindhard dielectric function as an example of a material with a complex relationship between polarization and electric fields.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of a divergence-free polarization field and the definitions of bound and free charges. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives on the nature of polarization in dielectrics and its dependence on various factors.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the nature of polarization and the definitions of bound charges, particularly in the context of quantum mechanics and different frequency regimes. The discussion also highlights the complexity of defining polarization in optics, with references to various models and theoretical frameworks.

cliowa
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Hey all,
I'm studying laser-matter interactions and was wondering: Is there any physical meaning to a non-vanishing polarization field with non-trivial constitutive relation but vanishing divergence? (By non-trivial I mean the constitutive equation does not stipulate that the polarization and electric fields are directly proportional) Is this a model for anything? Could you think of a situation where one starts out (at a given time) with a non-zero, divergence-free polarization field (and let's it evolve according to the MW equations and the constitutive equation)?

From what I have seen so far in textbooks a divergence-free polarization field implies that the density of bound charges in the dielectric is zero. Can that still be considered a dielectric? Does such a thing ever arise, and if yes, in what context?

Thanks a lot for your help...Cliowa
 
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The divergence of the polarization is by definition the density of the charges in the medium (i.e. those charges which are not external). In optics one usually sets magnetization M=0. Hence polarization has to describe all magnetic effects, i.e. the effects of currents with non-vanishing rotation. Such a transversal non-vanishing current possible even if the medium is neutral in every point.
 
Thanks for that clarification. When you say
DrDu said:
The divergence of the polarization is by definition the density of the charges in the medium (i.e. those charges which are not external).
do you really mean that the process of thought is that 1) when you apply an electric field to a medium bound charges (dipole moments) will be "created" (locally) and 2) you then construct a polarization field that has divergence equal to the density of those bound charges?
Concerning the idea of bound charges: The idea is really just the dipoles created in the material, right? Typically the dipole displacement will be very, very small compared to the size of the medium, I guess. For a standard plate capacitor with a dielectric in between the plates: could one thus assume (on the right scales) that the net effect of the dielectric will be additional charge on the plates (now from the bound charges on the "inside")?

More specifically I was studying a model where the polarization field is given as an anharmonic oscillator driven by the electric field, so I am looking at things in the optics regime.
DrDu said:
In optics one usually sets magnetization M=0. Hence polarization has to describe all magnetic effects, i.e. the effects of currents with non-vanishing rotation. Such a transversal non-vanishing current possible even if the medium is neutral in every point.
Could you elaborate a bit on that? Do you really mean that there are no dipoles created (or they're negligible) in the medium but the polarization is not trivially related to the electric field?

In general physical applications: Can one say anything about the geometry of the electric, magnetic and polarization fields? (I think for plane waves orthogonality of the former and electric field parallel to polarization can be inferred easily from the equations)

Thanks a lot for helping me out...Cliowa
 
The concept of bound and free charges stems from old days in the afterlast century. With the advent of quantum mechanics it became clear that one cannot distinguish between bound and free charges and it is also not possible to unambiguously define something like dipole density. There are different resolutions of the problem of how to describe a dielectric, depending on whether one is interested in electro-(or magneto-)statics or in the optical range of frequencies. In the optical region one simply sets [tex]P(x,t)= \int_{-\infty}^t dt' j(x,t')[/tex] or, in frequency space, [tex]P(x, \omega)=j(x,\omega)/(i \omega)[/tex] where j is the current density due to the charges of the medium (all charges but external ones). You can see that together with the choice H=B, all Maxwell equations are fulfilled. Even in the case of simple isotropic media, epsilon is now a tensor, with a longitudinal and a transversal part. In optics one is mainly interested in the transversal part. The divergence of the transversal part of the polarization (and current ...) always vanishes.
An example of a material with a highly non-trivial dependence of the polarization on the field is a free electron gas. Look for Lindhard dielectric function in that context.
The whole concept how to define polarization in optics is nicely discussed in Landau, Lifshetz, Electrodynamics of continuous media.
 

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