DNA tests disprove Mormon scripture

[Evo]

Your date is off by a few millenia. The BOM says Lehi's exodus took place shortly before the fall of Jerusalem, which has been dated to about 586 BCE. My copy actually states the Exodus took place in 600 BC, but I suspect that date was added by an editor, and not part of the original book.

Thanks for the correction, then it's even less applicable.

@quantumcarl: I have to look at that story with a grain of salt. Surely, if the massive citadel/cave system is still there, you would expect countless archeologists from all over the SW United States would have explored it by now. It just seems too big for one group to cover up - it would require a conspiracy on a massive scale. I'm not saying that it *didn't* happen, just that it's odd that nobody in the past 100 years has followed up / been able to verify it.

Agree, I remember seeing a debunking of it some time ago, not sure where.

 

[Grogs]

Agree, I remember seeing a debunking of it some time ago, not sure where.

I did a little searching and this was the closest thing to a 'debunking' I could find:

http://www.philipcoppens.com/egyptiancanyon.html

It seems to be one of the most 'balanced' articles I could find on the subject. Unfortunately, a lot of the things that pop up when you do a search are 'woowoo' sites. That doesn't automatically make them wrong, but I think the story is muddy enough even without tales of time travel, giant lizards, and the Illuminati.

 

[Skyhunter]

To finish, I wanted to make a specific reply to SkyHunter's last post about religious arrogance. Mormon's do not claim to know "all" truth, and we certainly have not stopped seeking it nor stopped trying to learn more of it! It is part of our doctrine, in fact, that while on Earth no one can know "all" truth. Anyone familiar with Mormon scripture would tell you that it repeatedly emphasizes the importance of continually seeking after truth. That really is what we try to do-humbly seek after truth. That's why I'll be studying tonight for my Quantum test tommorow. That's also why I'll read in my scriptures tonight.

Also, I just do not see how you can call the "presumption" of knowing eternal truths and values arrogant. We do not claim to have discovered them, or found them out through reason or any other method. Mormon doctrine teaches that such knowledge was given to everyone by a loving and wise Heavenly Father who has knowledge of all things. Such knowledge can be added to through obedience and dilligence, or diminished-but never extinguished-by disobedience and rebellion.

I was not referring to any particular religion, since I believe everyone's religion is their own. I was referring to the religious practice of presuming that eternal truths and values are contained in a book.

BTW- nice post

 

[quantumcarl]

@quantumcarl: I have to look at that story with a grain of salt. Surely, if the massive citadel/cave system is still there, you would expect countless archeologists from all over the SW United States would have explored it by now. It just seems too big for one group to cover up - it would require a conspiracy on a massive scale. I'm not saying that it *didn't* happen, just that it's odd that nobody in the past 100 years has followed up / been able to verify it.

What works to further verify the account of the "complex " are the two distinctly separate views of two completely unrelated explorers of the Grand Canyon...

There is an article in the Arizona Gazette that precedes the larger April 5th article from March 12, 1909.

The article states that Kincaid traveled the entire length of the Colorado River and that he was "the second man to make this journey." So who was the first man to make this journey? That was the famous John Wesley Powell who explored the Colorado River and the Grand Canyon from 1869 to 1872.

In his book Exploration of the Colorado River and its Canyons, Powell describes his journey through the Grand Canyon. As he is passing through an area known as Marble Canyon, Powell sees in the canyon walls that,

great numbers of caves are hollowed out, and carvings are seen which suggest architectural forms, though on a scale so grand that architectural terms belittle them.

Powell may be using the term "architectural forms" to describe the beauty of the natural formations, but the fact that he includes mention of a great number of caves in the same sentence is certainly curious when viewed in the context of the 1909 Arizona Gazette (correct name of publication) article.

Later on, Powell describes a curious discovery:

I walk down the gorge to the left at the foot of the cliff, climb to a bench, and discover a trail deeply worn into the rock. Where it crosses the side gulches in some places steps have been cut. I can see no evidence of its having been traveled for a long time. It was doubtless a path used by the people who inhabited this country anterior to the present Indian races-the people who built the communal houses of which mention has been made.

I returned to camp about three o'clock and find that some of the men have discovered ruins and many fragments of pottery; also etchings and hieroglyphics on the rocks.

Compare Powell's discovery to the entrance described by G. E. Kinkaid in the Arizona Gazette:

"There are steps leading from this entrance some thirty yards from what was at the time the cavern was inhabited, the level of the river."

Both accounts describe stone steps carved into the rocks. The Gazette article also describes Kinkaid's discovery of "tablets engraved with hieroglyphics."

Powell also speculates that the creators of the steps he found were a race of people who came before the Indian races. He does not speculate on their origin, but it appears possible that both Powell and Kinkaid are describing discoveries that point to the same culture.What is also true is that two ancient bodies were found entombed at a site that an early Smithsonian expedition named the canyon, "del Muerto" — "of the Dead" in Spanish. Here, we have something that is virtually identical to what Kinkaid alleges: a cave, in a cliff, with a complex series of rooms, containing mummies… even the Smithsonian is involved. The one major difference is that this site is known, whereas Kinkaid’s isn’t.

But what the Mummy Cave equally proves, is that there is no need for Tibetans or Egyptians, perhaps just the local Anasazi. Mummy Cave may look very different from what we imagine Kinkaid was describing at the Marble Canyon… But with so little known about Kinkaid… we are in the dark on that until the Temple of Isis becomes another archaeological highlight and perhaps... a tourist attraction.