Do Fresnell equations apply to other waves than EM waves?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the applicability of Fresnel equations, which are traditionally associated with electromagnetic (EM) waves, to other types of waves, particularly sound waves in water. Participants explore whether similar behaviors, such as reflection and transmission characteristics, can be observed in mechanical waves and how the Fresnel equations might be modified or applied in these contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that Fresnel equations are specific to EM waves due to their derivation from Maxwell's equations, which may not apply to sound waves.
  • Others suggest that there could be analogous behaviors in mechanical waves, such as sound waves, particularly regarding reflection and transmission phenomena.
  • A participant questions the meaning of "similar behavior," indicating that mechanical waves may exhibit half wave loss under certain conditions when reflected.
  • There is a discussion about the concepts of Brewster and critical angles, and whether similar relationships between impedance, transmittance/reflectance, and angles of incidence/reflection/transmission exist for sound waves.
  • Participants inquire about the term "half wave loss" and its relation to phase changes upon reflection, with some uncertainty about the terminology used.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the applicability of Fresnel equations to non-EM waves, with some asserting that they are exclusive to EM waves while others explore the possibility of analogous behaviors in mechanical waves. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the extent to which these equations can be adapted or applied to sound waves.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the definitions of terms like "half wave loss" and the conditions under which similar behaviors might be observed in mechanical waves. The discussion also reflects uncertainty about the correct terminology and the specific conditions that would allow for the application of Fresnel-like principles to sound waves.

DragonPetter
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When I read about Fresnel equations, I see that it is based on boundary equations determined by Maxwell's equations. So I would think these equations only apply to EM waves.

But is there a similar behavior in other waves like sound waves in water? Would I want to use or modify Fresnel equations for other waves than EM waves?
 
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I'm going to guess that Fresnell equations is only specific to EM waves because it is using the parallel and perpendicular polarization which I think does not apply to sound waves
 
DragonPetter said:
When I read about Fresnel equations, I see that it is based on boundary equations determined by Maxwell's equations. So I would think these equations only apply to EM waves.

But is there a similar behavior in other waves like sound waves in water? Would I want to use or modify Fresnel equations for other waves than EM waves?

They only apply to electromagnetic waves.

What does "similar behavior" mean? Half wave loss? Then yes, mechanical waves have half wave loss when reflected on certain conditions too.
 
netheril96 said:
They only apply to electromagnetic waves.

What does "similar behavior" mean? Half wave loss? Then yes, mechanical waves have half wave loss when reflected on certain conditions too.

Well, by similar behavior, I mean about having a brewster and critical angle, and the same or similar relationships between impedance,transmittance/reflectance, and incident/reflected/transmitted angles.

I am trying to make a ray trace of sound in water, and want to be as comprehensive as possible, so I would like to apply any equations I can.
 
Also what is half wave loss? Are you referring to phase change on reflections ?
 
DragonPetter said:
Also what is half wave loss? Are you referring to phase change on reflections ?

Yes. Or maybe half wave loss is not the correct English name?
 

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