Do Harvard and MIT students have a 145 IQ average?

[AryaKimiaghalam]

Hi,
I've heard that Harvard and MIT students have an average IQ of 145. It looks very odd to me because I think it's ridiculously high. In my University the average is said to be around 123.
Does anybody have any recourses about this topic?
I'm trying to decide whether to have MIT as a goal, or not. Because with these numbers, it seems impossible.

 

[Orodruin]

Why do you focus on IQ? It is a rather useless measure in terms of actual student performance. Sure, it may be correlated to performance in higher STEM education, but that does not mean that is is the best predictor and you certainly will not get admitted to MIT by submitting your IQ test results.

However, in general it should be said that you should not be surprised that top universities attract top students.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I've heard that Harvard and MIT students have an average IQ of 145.

Where?

Does it sound reasonable that Harvard and MIT administer IQ tests to their students? Did your university?

 

[Dr. Courtney]

I was at MIT for grad school for 5.5 years and I don't recall anyone every mentioning their IQ.

But having said that, my IQ consistently has been measured within a few points of 130, and I felt like the dumbest person there.

The emphasis at MIT was on hard work and accomplishments. What I lacked in raw intellectual processing power, I made up for in hard work and a knack for knowing my limitations and picking problems to work on that I could solve with my available skills and toolset.

 

[jtbell]

I've heard that Harvard and MIT students have an average IQ of 145.

Then 50% of them have an IQ < 145.

 

[ZapperZ]

Hi,
I've heard that...

Please cite your source. Otherwise, we may be discussing a non-existent unicorn.

Zz.

 

[AryaKimiaghalam]

Jordan Peterson's Public speech, Ottawa, Canada.

 

[russ_watters]

Hi,
I've heard that Harvard and MIT students have an average IQ of 145. It looks very odd to me because I think it's ridiculously high. In my University the average is said to be around 123.
Does anybody have any recourses about this topic?

Jordan Peterson's Public speech, Ottawa, Canada.

As a phd clinical psychologist and university professor, with "assessment and improvement of personality and performance" as an area of study (per wiki), I'd say he's probably qualified to make that statement. Though he doesn't say how he got it, I suspect by the context that he's using SAT scores (which are published) as a proxy. Because as pointed out, colleges don't directly measure the IQ of their students. Googling reveals that a number of people have tried to do academic quality research on this, but since you need to get volunteers, it is tough to eliminate selection bias in surveys. In any case...

I'm trying to decide whether to have MIT as a goal, or not. Because with these numbers, it seems impossible.

Why? Are you saying that you have a lower IQ and as such don't believe you could get in or succeed? How closely did you watch/listen to the video? He says the other best predictor of academic success is conscientiousness. Do you have that? Also; knowing the average IQ of the students doesn't really tell you what you need to get in, nor does it tell you the success rate vs IQ once there.

So since Harvard does not have an IQ requirement for entry or success, I don't think you should focus your decision on whether to try to go there on IQ. Its relevance is tenuous at best.

 

[Vanadium 50]

1) The phrase "MIT" never crosses his lips. That's entirely your invention.
2) The paper that says the correlation between IQ and SAT is .85 (Frey and Ditterman) has a function to go from SAT to IQ. A perfect SAT yields 129. You can't get to 145 using these numbers.
3) A 99-th percentile in intelligence works out to an IQ of 135. The SAT scores do not have enough resolution at the high end to reach 145.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

1) The phrase "MIT" never crosses his lips. That's entirely your invention.
2) The paper that says the correlation between IQ and SAT is .85 (Frey and Ditterman) has a function to go from SAT to IQ. A perfect SAT yields 129. You can't get to 145 using these numbers.
3) A 99-th percentile in intelligence works out to an IQ of 135. The SAT scores do not have enough resolution at the high end to reach 145.

Great point. If my IQ was as high as V50's I'd have caught that.

 

[Eric Bretschneider]

And how many students take classes to improve their SAT scores? If you're focused on IQ scores then go see a therapist or better yet a good academic counselor. A good work ethic and dedication go a long ways to trump a difference in IQs.

 

[AryaKimiaghalam]

I apologize for my inaccuracy.
,Now that I think deeper, I think you guys are right. I put myself in a cycle of confusion and futility, by paying attention to stereotypes.
Work ethic is the most important factor.
Thank you for your great comments and attention.

 

[mathwonk]

As others have said it is possible that high IQ correlates with high SAT which at some point may have influenced acceptance rates. But I assure you I know people with IQ above 145 who were denied acceptance due perhaps to lukewarm recommendation letters from high school advisers, etc..., and probably many more with IQ less than 145 who were accepted and very successful at Harvard/MIT. The facts are that these schools attract today so many applications that they could fill the whole class with people of IQ > 150 if they wanted to, and also with people with published works, or all - state athletes, or all three. They work hard to choose the class well, given that they are choosing from almost everyone of high achievement. These schools are not a good fit for everyone, so I advise you just do your best, and trust the acceptance personnel to make a wise decision as to whether you would flourish there, or if you go elsewhere whether you would do well where you do go. Steve Jobs for example attended Reed College and did not even graduate from there. Steve Wozniak attended Colorado but was expelled.

 

[AryaKimiaghalam]

And how many students take classes to improve their SAT scores? If you're focused on IQ scores then go see a therapist or better yet a good academic counselor. A good work ethic and dedication go a long ways to trump a difference in IQs.

I did an IQ test when I was in grade 9. My Verbal IQ score was 122 and my mathematical/analytical IQ score was 141. It was done by my school but I don't remember any psychologist doing the supervision. I wanted to join the science Olympics program (astronomy) and I had to score 120+ in the combined score, and I scored 131. But knowing it wasn't done directly by a professional psychologist, I doubt they're accurate. But as others said, work ethic and commitment are the most important factors.

 

[f95toli]

Jordan Peterson's Public speech, Ottawa, Canada.[/MEDIA]

Peterson has basically made a career out of making controversial statements. This helps him sell books, that are in no way mainstream science.
See e.g.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/f1d7fed0-4ddf-4a8a-94b9-ea05f913cdd2

 

[AryaKimiaghalam]

He is highly educated and respected in academia. You can t say things like this without any proof.

 

[ZapperZ]

You can t say things like this without any proof.

I can also say that you should have used that exact phrase towards him and ask him for the evidence that will allow him to make such a claim.

It is unfortunate that you spent time and effort on something like that. As has been stated, it is extremely unlikely that he actually had students IQ data to start with. No schools that I know of poll for students IQ scores. And yet, simply based on this YouTube video, you were almost to the point of having "paralysis by analysis".

BTW, you do not need to go to MIT/Harvard/etc. to have a successful and meaningful career. An overwhelming number of people have proven that.

Zz.

 

[f95toli]

He is highly educated and respected in academia. You can t say things like this without any proof.

I did include a link. Did you actually read the article?
Peterson is not exactly some unknown academic; his name tends to pop up in the media quite frequently and there was a lot of controversy surrounding the Channel 4 interview (the one conducted by Cathy Newman).
Hence, he is definitively (very) controversial. He is also a best-selling author, i.e. he does sell books.
So what was wrong with my statement?

 

[DrClaude]

Closed pending moderation.

 

[berkeman]

IQ threads generally do not go well. This thread will remain closed.