Does an EM wave bend in a B-field?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of electromagnetic (EM) waves in the presence of a magnetic field, particularly whether they bend in such fields. Participants explore concepts from classical electromagnetism and quantum mechanics, including the nature of waves and particles, and the implications of charge on their behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference Thomson's conclusion that electrons bend in magnetic fields while EM waves do not, questioning the validity of this claim.
  • There is a discussion about why a wave would bend in a magnetic field, with some suggesting that a charge experiences a force while an EM wave, as a propagating field, does not.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the relationship between EM waves and probability waves in quantum mechanics, questioning whether the lack of charge in photons is the reason they do not bend in magnetic fields.
  • Another participant notes that while electrons and photons can both be interpreted as waves, their behaviors differ due to the charge of the electron.
  • There is a suggestion that for a photon to bend in a magnetic field, it would need to have its own electric or magnetic field.
  • Some participants discuss the distinction between field waves and probability waves, with one asserting that probability waves are more mathematical constructs, while EM fields are fundamental physical entities.
  • A later reply questions whether Bohr's interpretation of EM waves as probability waves was incorrect, indicating ongoing uncertainty about interpretations in quantum mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the behavior of EM waves in magnetic fields, with no consensus reached on whether photons can bend in such fields or the implications of their wave-particle duality.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the relationship between charge, wave behavior, and interpretations in quantum mechanics, indicating that assumptions and definitions may vary among contributors.

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I read somewhere that Thomson (1897) concluded that the electron was not an EM wave because it bended in a magnetic field and that it had been proven that EM waves did not do this. Is this true?
 
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Why would a wave bend in a magnetic field?

A CHARGE will experience a force, but the E&M wave is a "wave", a propagating electric-magnetic field. They can superpose.
 
Indeed, but my confusion arose from this: if in QM an EM wave is interpreted as a probability wave, just like an electron is interpreted as a probability wave, then due to the latter statement, a probability wave can experience a B-field. Now indeed a photon has no charge, but an EM-wave does have an E-field, so it might intermingle? And if it doesn't, is the reason a photon doesn't bend in a B-field because it has no charge, or more fundamentally that it is a wave?
 
I can't explain it at the QM level, but I know that fields can superpose (shown by the linearity of Maxwell's equations).

True that electron is interpreted as a wave, however I don't think we can say "electron is a wave, photon is a wave, they're the same". Obviously the electron has a charge and it behaves differently than other waves on the larger scale. That's probably the reason, I'm not sure.
 
If a photon could be bent in a magnetic field it would have to have its own B field or E field for this to happen .
 
cragar: isn't that exactly what a photon has?
 
Then why can't a photon emit photons.
 
Indeed, but my confusion arose from this: if in QM an EM wave is interpreted as a probability wave, just like an electron is interpreted as a probability wave, then due to the latter statement, a probability wave can experience a B-field. Now indeed a photon has no charge, but an EM-wave does have an E-field, so it might intermingle? And if it doesn't, is the reason a photon doesn't bend in a B-field because it has no charge, or more fundamentally that it is a wave?
Field wave and probability wave are different.
Probability wave is more of a mathematical construct than physical reality (although it depends on interpretation). It contains all information about physical state.
EM field is a fundamental field of nature. It is definitely out there, waving happily, making light, radio waves and other nice things. (Unlike probability wave, which is gone once you look at the particle.)
 
Dead Boss said:
Field wave and probability wave are different.
Probability wave is more of a mathematical construct than physical reality (although it depends on interpretation). It contains all information about physical state.
EM field is a fundamental field of nature. It is definitely out there, waving happily, making light, radio waves and other nice things. (Unlike probability wave, which is gone once you look at the particle.)

That's what I thought at first, but I read that Bohr interpreted an EM wave as a probability wave. Was Bohr wrong the first time around?
 

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