Does E=cB Hold for All EM Waves?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the electric field \(\vec E\) and the magnetic field \(\vec B\) in electromagnetic (EM) waves, specifically questioning whether the relation \(E = cB\) holds for all possible wave solutions of Maxwell's equations. The scope includes theoretical aspects of electromagnetic waves and their mathematical representations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that the relation \(E = cB\) is valid for spherical or plane EM waves and seeks to determine its validity for all EM wave solutions.
  • Another participant explains that electromagnetic waves have a vector character and provides a general relation derived from Maxwell's equations, stating that \(\vec B(\vec r,t) = \frac{1}{\omega} \, \vec k \times \vec E(\vec r,t)\) holds true.
  • A later reply questions the origin of the equation \(\vec B(\vec r,t) = \frac{1}{\omega} \, \vec k \times \vec E(\vec r,t)\) and seeks clarification on its derivation.
  • One participant outlines the derivation of the relationship using plane wave solutions of Maxwell's equations, showing how the curl of the electric field relates to the time derivative of the magnetic field.
  • Another participant references external material to support the discussion, indicating that further reading may provide additional context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of the relation \(E = cB\) to all EM waves, with some supporting its validity under certain conditions while others highlight the complexity of general wave solutions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the universality of the relation.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of plane waves and their physical representation. There are also references to mathematical steps that may require further clarification or context.

kof9595995
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I know for spherical or plane EM wave, there's relation E=cB, and we can prove it by the explicit expression of these two kinds of wave. But does E=cB hold for all EM waves, e.g. all possible wavelike solutions of maxwell's equation?
 
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Hi,

electromagnetic waves have always vector character and a common relation (yield from Maxwell's equations) between the electric field \vec E(\vec r,t) and the magnetic field \vec B(\vec r,t) is


\vec B(\vec r,t) = \frac{1}{\omega} \, \vec k \times \vec E(\vec r,t)​


As you stated waves can have a more complex form! The most general form can be represented by the Fourier transformation and is a consequence of the linearity of Maxwell's equations. A general expression for the electric field in this form is


\vec E(\vec r, t) = \frac{1}{(2\pi)^{3/2}} ~ \int ~ \mathrm{d}^3k ~ \tilde{ \vec E}(\vec k) \, e^{i(\vec k \vec r - c |\vec k|t)}​



where \tilde{\vec E}(\vec k) is the amplitude of a plane wave that belongs to the wavevector \vec k. This is often called a wave packet.

So we are talking about the amplitudes of the electric field belonging to the plane wave with wavevector \vec k. But what is about the amplitudes of the magnetic field?
For the amplitudes the first equation is always true, because \tilde{\vec B}, \tilde{\vec E}, \vec k are always perpendicular. So the amplitudes of the magnetic field are


\tilde{\vec B}(\vec k) = \frac{1}{\omega} \vec k \times \tilde{\vec E}(\vec k)​


So \vec B(\vec r,t) is analogous to \vec E(\vec r,t)


\vec B(\vec r, t) = \frac{1}{(2\pi)^{3/2}} ~ \int ~ \mathrm{d}^3k ~ \tilde{\vec B}(\vec k) \, e^{i(\vec k \vec r - c |\vec k|t)} = \frac{1}{(2\pi)^{3/2}} ~ \int ~ \mathrm{d}^3k ~ \, \frac{1}{\omega} \, \vec k \times \tilde{\vec E}(\vec k) ~ e^{i(\vec k \vec r - c |\vec k|t)}​


So, the above equation is really the general solution of Maxwell's equations! Like you have seen, nothing is as easy as it seems (remember plane waves aren't physical but the infinite sum of them are as long as they vanish in infinty).

Hope i could help...
 
Thanks.
And where does
<br /> \vec B(\vec r,t) = \frac{1}{\omega} \, \vec k \times \vec E(\vec r,t)<br />
come from?
 
I assume, that we already know that the plane waves


\vec E(\vec r,t) = \vec E_0 ~ e^{i(\vec k \vec r - \omega t)}
\vec B(\vec r,t) = \vec B_0 ~ e^{i(\vec k \vec r - \omega t)}​


are solutions of Maxwell's equation. Let's calculate


\mathrm{rot} ~ \vec E(\vec r,t) = - \frac{\partial \vec B(\vec r,t)}{\partial t}


with these solutions.

\mathrm{rot} ~ \vec E(\vec r,t) yields


\mathrm{rot} ~ \vec E(\vec r,t) = \vec \nabla \times \Bigl( \vec E_0 ~ e^{i(\vec k \vec r - \omega t)} \Bigl) = i \vec k \times \vec E_0 ~ e^{i(\vec k \vec r - \omega t)}


\partial \vec B(\vec r,t) / \partial t yields


\frac{\partial \vec B(\vec r,t)}{\partial t} = - i \omega \vec B_0 ~ e^{i(\vec k \vec r - \omega t)


With these results we got the expression


\vec k \times \vec E_0 = \omega ~ \vec B_0​
 
Thanks a lot!
 

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