Does gravity act differently on a Solar System, a Galasy, and the Universe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around how gravity may act differently on various scales, specifically within the Solar System, galaxies, and the universe at large. Participants explore concepts such as modified Newtonian dynamics (MOND), dark matter, and the implications of these theories on gravitational phenomena like galaxy rotation curves and gravitational lensing.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that according to Newton's law, gravitational acceleration decreases with distance, becoming very weak at large distances, and suggests that this may explain why the Sun has not pulled in matter from the Oort cloud.
  • Another participant questions the clarity of the initial post, asking if there is a specific question being posed.
  • It is mentioned that modified Newtonian dynamics (MOND) predicts stellar rotation curves, but recent observations show that some galaxies have rotation curves consistent with Newtonian predictions, while others do not, raising questions about the universality of MOND.
  • Some participants argue that MOND poses more questions than it answers and does not apply uniformly across different galaxies, with counterexamples existing for every case that seems to require MOND.
  • There is a discussion about the potential existence of Intermediate Mass Black Holes and how finding them could address gaps in current astronomical understanding, as well as the need for more data on nearby stars to better understand galactic mass distributions.
  • A participant suggests that both dark matter and MOND could potentially explain gravitational phenomena, questioning whether it has to be an either-or situation and proposing that there may be other gravitational phenomena yet to be discovered.
  • One participant expresses a sense of wonder about recent astronomical discoveries and defers to another participant's expertise in astronomy, framing their contributions as questions rather than assertions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability and effectiveness of MOND versus dark matter in explaining gravitational phenomena. There is no consensus on whether one theory is superior to the other, and multiple competing perspectives remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in current understanding, such as the variability in galaxy rotation curves and the potential gaps in the census of galactic matter. Assumptions about the uniformity of gravitational laws across different scales are also questioned.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying astrophysics, cosmology, or gravitational theories, as well as individuals curious about the ongoing debates surrounding dark matter and modified gravity theories.

KurtLudwig
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TL;DR
Newton's law predicts gravity for our solar system almost perfectly. On a galactic scale, modified Newtonian dynamic equations predict the stellar rotation curves. On the scale of our Universe, black matter is needed to explain large scale phenomenon.
Since acceleration due to Newton's law decreases as the inverse of distance, it becomes very weak at large distances. Our Sun was unable to pull in matter in the Oort cloud in over 4 billion years. Above about 0.11 light years, using modified Newtonian dynamics equations, gravity decreases by the inverse of distance only. Gravity at that distance from the sun is about 1.2 x 10^-10 m/s^2. That is, gravity decreases much more slowly. On a galactic scale, there is no need to assume dark matter. However, to explain formation of stars in the beginning of our Universe, gravitational wells of dark matter were needed. Other very large scale phenomenon can be best explained by existence of dark matter.
 
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Is there a question here?
 
KurtLudwig said:
modified Newtonian dynamic equations predict the stellar rotation curves.
Not so much. Recent observations have detected galaxies that have rotation curves that are close what Newtonian Physics predicts, while other very similar galaxies have rotation curves that differ significantly from the Newtonian norm. If MOND was the sole answer to galaxy rotation curves, it would have to be consistent from galaxy to galaxy; similar galaxies would have to have similar rotation curves. The newly discovered galaxies don't adhere to this pattern.
 
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MOND is a contender, but seems to pose more questions than answers, and doesn't seem to apply evenly. For every example of galaxy or galaxy group that 'needs' MOND, there seems a counter example that doesn't. Plus a couple 'in between'.

Like 'Dark Matter', or loathe it, there's wide gaps in our census of galactic stuff. How common are 'Intermediate Mass Black Holes' ? Finding a significant population of them would fix one big gap. Finding a lot more 'sub-Brown Dwarf' L/T/Y types in our solar neighbourhood would shift the 'mass function'. Assuming, if we dare, that our location within an 'interstellar bubble' is even mildly representative of wider 'Spiral Arm'...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Bubble

So, beyond the usual astro-sites, I keep a wary eye on RECONS: (REsearch Consortium On Nearby Stars) "...To understand the nature of the Sun's nearest stellar neighbors, both individually and as a population. Our primary goals are to discover "missing" members of the stellar sample within 10 parsecs (32.6 light years), and to characterize all stars and their environments within that distance limit. "
http://www.recons.org/
 
The question was implied: Can both dark matter and modified Newtonian dynamics help us explain the clumping of matter, gravitational lensing and galaxy rotation curves. Does it have to be either or? Can it be both? Phenomenon of light are explained by waves and particles.
The ideal gas laws, which need to be sometimes modified due to Van der Waals forces between molecules of some gases. Maybe astronomers are missing a gravitation phenomenon between stars?
I do defer to Janus' knowledge on astronomy. Please take this post as questions. I find astronomy very interesting and am amazed at the insights discovered during the last twenty years and during the last century.
 

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