Does Mass Determine Speed? Investigating the Physics and Biology

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the relationship between size, speed, and structural strength in animals, particularly in the context of the square-cube law. It highlights the misconception that larger animals should be faster due to their ability to take bigger strides. However, as animals increase in size, their limbs must also grow thicker to support their weight, which can limit speed. The square-cube law illustrates that simply increasing limb thickness is insufficient for supporting a proportionally larger body. The conversation also touches on the complexities of speed, noting that maximum speed is influenced by drag and metabolic power, which increases with mass. While larger animals like elephants can be fast, smaller organisms often have different adaptations that affect their speed and movement, such as spiders using silk to travel with air currents. The idea of measuring speed relative to body size is suggested as a more meaningful comparison, acknowledging that various factors contribute to an animal's ability to move.
Tiiba
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I don't know whether this is physics or biology. I think that depends on the answer as much as the question.

1) Hollywood says a big hulking giant would be a huge threat.
2) Critics laugh and say that a big hulking giant wouldn't even be able to walk.
3) Horses are fast, mice are slow, and ants are just pitiful. Sure, ants are pretty macho in proportion to their mass, but they can't run that fast.

So why? Is there a point where this trend is reversed? Elephants are pretty fast, too.
 
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Tiiba said:
So why? Is there a point where this trend is reversed? Elephants are pretty fast, too.

Please state your question explicitly.
 
Why does the square-cube law not make small animals faster than large animals?
 
You're confusing two things here: speed and structural strength.

Of course you can make bigger strides when you're larger. But being larger also means you need increasingly stronger limbs, that can support your weight and survive the stresses of walking.

Since the material making up supporting structures (bones, chitin) cannot be made physically stronger, the only way to support more weight is to have larger cross-section bones.

The square-cube law means that it's not enough to double the thickness (cross-sectional area) of a limb to support a 3-dimensionally larger object, like a human-proportioned giant. You can see this at work in the examples of animals you've provided: limbs of an ant, mouse, horse and elephant grow increasingly thicker w/r to the body as you go up in size.

At some point, the size of the limbs (as compared to the body) needed to support the weight of the animal becomes prohibitively large.
 
You know, I think I have it.

Maximum speed depends on drag cross-section, while power available, which depends on metabolism, goes up with mass. Is this correct?

Dividing 8x power by 4x drag force gives 2x speed.

I did a calculation some time ago that predicted things the other way around. I think I totally forgot about metabolism.
 
Tiiba said:
power available, which depends on metabolism, goes up with mass. Is this correct?
Think it through carefully --- you've got waste heat/energy to dissipate --- you've skipped a few details that might contribute to understanding the functional relationships you're tossing around so casually.
 
What makes something fast is a lot more complex than the square cube law, which says exactly what it says and nothing more (though it has implication).

The average (relative)speed of a N2 molecule is 475 m/s. That's fast, and those molecules are small. The largest known living organism are fungi that stretch large distances (kilometers). They do not move at all.
Then, there's large animals that move pretty fast and tiny organisms that move with the current only. What about spiders that use silk to travel with air currents. Apparently they can reach an altitude of 5 kilometers. I wonder how they do on a list of fastest animals. What is their terminal velocity. Apparently this is unknown and depends on how much silk they use. Apparently every animal as small or smaller than a mouse survives terminal velocity impact on 'softer' surfaces,

Maybe it makes more sense to express speed relative to body size.
 
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