Does rotation of rigid body need a couple or only 1 force is sufficien

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether a single force is sufficient to cause the rotation of a rigid body in the absence of gravity and friction. Participants explore the conditions under which a force can induce both rotation and translation, as well as the role of torque in this process.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that a single force can cause both rotation and translation if the torque (r cross F) is nonzero.
  • Others seek further clarification on the mechanics behind this assertion, asking for experimental demonstrations to confirm the concept.
  • Examples from billiards and football are proposed to illustrate how off-center forces can lead to rotation in real-world scenarios.
  • Participants discuss the calculation of torque and suggest using the center of mass as a reference point for determining the distance 'r' in torque calculations.
  • One participant describes an experiment involving a wooden scale on a smooth table to demonstrate the effects of an off-center force.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the sufficiency of a single force for rotation, as some participants express uncertainty and seek additional examples or experiments to validate the claims made. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the necessity of a couple or moment for rotation.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the presence of friction in real-life scenarios complicates the idealized conditions being discussed. There are also unresolved questions about the specific points of rotation and the implications of applying forces in different locations on the body.

koolraj09
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Hi all,

Suppose we go in space where no gravity and friction exists. If there is a bar, in say - horizontal plane and we apply a force at one end of the bar, in this plane and perpendicular to the bar. Will that bar rotate and translate or it will only undergo pure translational motion without rotation?
In other words is it sufficient to apply a single force and cause a body to rotate? Or do we need to apply a couple/moment to make the body rotate.
 
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It will rotate and translate.
 
Can you please give me an elaborate explanation as why this is true?
 
If the force vector is F and the position of the point of application of that force is r (measured from the body's centre of mass), then the torque is r cross F. If you apply a force on the bar in the way you describe, r cross F is nonzero so the torque is nonzero, which means the object will gain angular momentum, i.e. begin to rotate.
 
Can only one single force provide this rotation (as well as translation) or we need some other force to produce this rotation?
 
koolraj09 said:
Can only one single force provide this rotation (as well as translation) or we need some other force to produce this rotation?

Yes, a single force can provide this, as long as r cross F is not zero.
 
Thanks guys. The explanation is obviously right. But I am still not convinced.
Can you suggest me some experiment in which I will be able to confirm/demonstrate this fact - the fact that a rigid body can rotate when only a single force acts on the whole body with no counter/opposing force present?
 
koolraj09 said:
Thanks guys. The explanation is obviously right. But I am still not convinced.
Can you suggest me some experiment in which I will be able to confirm/demonstrate this fact - the fact that a rigid body can rotate when only a single force acts on the whole body with no counter/opposing force present?

Have you ever played billiards/snooker/pool ? In the game if you hit the ball right in the middle ,it would simply move forward .But if you hit it above or below the center of the ball ,it would rotate as well as translate forward .

In real life friction is present ,but even in an ideal case ,if we assume friction to be absent , a force above or below the center of the ball would cause the ball to rotate.
 
Thanks Tanya! Still are there any other examples which could prove this fact?


koolraj09 said:
Hi all,

Suppose we go in space where no gravity and friction exists. If there is a bar, in say - horizontal plane and we apply a force at one end of the bar, in this plane and perpendicular to the bar. Will that bar rotate and translate or it will only undergo pure translational motion without rotation?
In other words is it sufficient to apply a single force and cause a body to rotate? Or do we need to apply a couple/moment to make the body rotate.

In this example - What 'r' would we take to calculate torque (=rXF)? About which point would the body rotate?
 
  • #10
koolraj09 said:
Still are there any other examples which could prove this fact?
Have you ever kicked a football? Kick it off center and it goes flying and rotates.

In this example - What 'r' would we take to calculate torque (=rXF)? About which point would the body rotate?
It's always convenient to use the center of mass as your reference in calculating 'r'--take r to be the distance from the center of mass. The motion can be consider to be a combination of translation and rotation about the center of mass.
 
  • #11
koolraj09 said:
Thanks Tanya! Still are there any other examples which could prove this fact?

Place a light wooden scale on a sufficiently smooth table .Just flick one end of it with your fingers (i.e give it a sharp impulse ) .You will find the scale rotating as well as moving forward.

koolraj09 said:
In this example - What 'r' would we take to calculate torque (=rXF)? About which point would the body rotate?

'r' is the distance between the point of application of force and the center of mass of the object.

koolraj09 said:
About which point would the body rotate?

The body rotates about its center of mass .

Please note that if a body is unconstrained (i.e free to move ) and an off center force/impulse is applied ,then the body moves such that the center of mass moves in a straight line and the body rotates about the CM .

Hope this helps
 

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