# Does the Rankine Cycle really need a liquid phase?

• fbs7
In summary, the question is asking about why step (c) involves condensation in a steam engine. The answer is that it avoids the problem of controlling a two-phase mixture, and decreases the energy spent in pumping back to boiler.
fbs7
A question about Thermodynamics, if someone would help with that...

I understand a steam engine that follows the Rankine cycle has basically 4 steps: (a) heating in a boiler; (b) expansion on a piston or turbine; (c) condensation; (d) pump back into the boiler.

For many years I have been curious why step (c) involves condensation. Couldn't I change (c) to be cooldown of the steam to a temperature just above boiling, and therefore avoid the waste of heat due to evaporating the water again? The usual explanation I find about this is that "condensation avoids the problem of controlling a two-phase mixture, and decreases the energy spent in pumping back to boiler".

That explanation is fine, but it leaves me very curious why I never heard about any single steam engine that used a more efficient cycle by avoiding the liquid phase. I mean, if (c) = cooldown then that's closer to Carnot cycle, isn't it?

Any help with that?

Why in your last paragraph do you ignore the pumping energy? Why do you think that not condensing would be more efficient when you know (you said earlier, at least) that the pumping energy is greater for a gas than a liquid?

russ_watters said:
Why in your last paragraph do you ignore the pumping energy? Why do you think that not condensing would be more efficient when you know (you said earlier, at least) that the pumping energy is greater for a gas than a liquid?

My thinking around that is from my poorly drawn diagram below. Red is the Carnot cycle, blue is the Rankine cycle and pink is the hypothetical cycle I'm asking about.

So, if I take a Rankine engine and stop the cooling short of full condensation, then my curve becomes closer to that of a Carnot cycle, therefore it should be more efficient.

I mean, the Carnot cycle has a compression stage, and yet it yields maximum efficiency, right? So to use the condensator as a means of avoiding a compressor is a nice trick of doing that with a much simpler equipment, so that was very cool for the 1800s, but nowadays we can just put a pump in there?

https://www.physicsforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42733&d=1326715246

#### Attachments

• temp1.bmp
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Wait - your diagrams don't match your description in the OP. You said "cooldown of the steam to a temperature just above boiling". That isn't what is happening in any of the cycles you drew. All cool down to boiling and partly, mostly or completely condense.

russ_watters said:
Wait - your diagrams don't match your description in the OP. You said "cooldown of the steam to a temperature just above boiling". That isn't what is happening in any of the cycles you drew. All cool down to boiling and partly, mostly or completely condense.

Oh... good point. So there's no way of avoiding condensation

So a Carnot cycle with saturated steam will also involve partial condensation. Got it now - thank you, Russ, appreciate the explanation.

Hi. I'm still learning about this. Wouldn't there be need for some sort of check valves used to keep the heated fluid from expanding back into the condenser? Also, wouldn't the fluid pump have to work hard to pump the cold liquid into the boiler...because there is pressure being produced in there?

## 1. Does the Rankine Cycle only work with liquid phase?

No, the Rankine Cycle can also work with gas or supercritical fluid phases. However, a liquid phase is the most commonly used and efficient phase for this cycle.

## 2. What is the purpose of the liquid phase in the Rankine Cycle?

The liquid phase is used to transfer heat from the heat source to the working fluid, allowing the fluid to expand and produce mechanical work in the turbine.

## 3. Can the Rankine Cycle operate with a different type of fluid instead of water?

Yes, the Rankine Cycle can use different types of fluids such as refrigerants, hydrocarbons, or even molten salts. However, water is the most commonly used and efficient fluid for this cycle.

## 4. Is the liquid phase necessary for the Rankine Cycle to produce electricity?

Yes, the liquid phase is necessary for the Rankine Cycle to produce electricity. Without it, the heat transfer and expansion processes cannot occur, and therefore no mechanical work can be produced to generate electricity.

## 5. Can the liquid phase in the Rankine Cycle be replaced with a solid phase?

No, the liquid phase cannot be replaced with a solid phase in the Rankine Cycle. The heat transfer and expansion processes require a fluid to work, and a solid phase cannot fulfill these requirements.

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