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Please give the reason for your choices.

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- Thread starter Mentat
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- #1

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Please give the reason for your choices.

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I picked "no", because I have always seen the universe as governed by a set of laws (hence the possibility of a T.O.E.). If it is governed by a set of laws, then the propositions that make up those laws, could not contradict each other (IMO) or else we'd be able to break the so-called "laws". A conclusion that is based on contradictory propositions is a paradox.

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Please, include the reason for voting as you do.

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from whatis.com.paradox

A paradox is a statement or concept that contains conflicting ideas. In logic, a paradox is a statement that contradicts itself; for example, the statement "I never tell the truth" is a paradox because if the statement is true (T), it must be false (F) and if it is false (F), it must be true (T). In everyday language, a paradox is a concept that seems absurd or contradictory, yet is true. In a Windows environment, for instance, it is a paradox that when a user wants to shut down their computer, it is necessary to click "start".

From the second definition, it is pretty clear that paradoxes do exist. Indeed, this definition is that used by much of science - see eg. the twins paradox.

The first definition is more interesting. We may never know, as this is a question that extends beyond evidence. However, it is likely that our sense of logic, evolved as it has to describe the immediately observable world, may place as paradoxes things that are actually true. Eg. Schrodinger's cat.

If a paradox exists only as long as it cannot be solved, does it still exist is another question Flipton's post raises. Since we will never know everything, there will always be an apparent paradox just over the horizon.

Of course, there may well be other universes with laws that directly contradict ours... does that count?

How about a maybe option?

- #6

RuroumiKenshin

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Ishop

However I reconize that paradox's can live in concept (imagination). But again I believe "paradox" is a lame excuse for not knowing or trying to know.

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Originally posted by Sensei

an infinite number of nothings, makes up something. that to me reeks slightly of paradox.

[/B]

No an infinite number of nothings does not equal 1. An infinite number of 1/infinity = 1. 1/infinity does NOT = zero.

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RuroumiKenshin

So what does it equal? Is it undefined?

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Paradox often associates with insight, paradoxically.

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Originally posted by Sensei

Disagreement is encouraged, but with the hope that it can be supported, and not conclusory.

Sorry, I didn't think it needed any explanation. It's just simple math to me. But you have said something in this latest post that you didn't really say in the first one....

infinity is an infinite number of 0's, then since 1/0 is 0, 1 divided by an infinite number of 0's should not be any different thus resulting again, in a 0.

You're saying here that infinity = an infinite number of zero's. Thats not how I interpret the word "infinity" when used in a mathematical sense. Infinity is the ever increasing number series.

1/1 = 1 and 1/2 = .5 The denominator can continue on to infinity and the answer will continue to decrease getting closer and closer to zero for infinity. It will never reach zero. "Infinity" is a concept and is not really a number so the phrase 1/infinity doesn't really mean anything except to go through the exercise I did above.

And by the way...1 divided by 0 is not 0. It is "undefined" Put it in your calculator and see

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1/0=infinity

multiply both sides by 0:

infinity(0)=1

divide both sides by infinity:

0=1/infinity

OK, that's all welll and good, but:

2/0=(1/0)+(1/0)

=infinity+infinity

=infinity

2/0=infinity

infinity(0)=2

infinity(0)=2

infinity(0)=1

1=2

Uh, no. The concept of infinity just can't be used like that.

What was all that stuff you wrote at the bottom of your last post. It's completely contradictory. Where are you getting that 1/0 is 0?

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steppenwolf

as fliption rightly pointed out infinity is a concept not a number therefore you cannot really hope to get a number when manipulating it, the infinitesimal is just another concept so fits right in.

that is some crazy math sensei, but i like the idea that infinity might be the key to understanding paradox

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This question is its own answer and, thus, a paradox in its own rite. If the universe did not allow for paradoxes you could not ask the question. It is a bit along the lines of asking, "Can I ask a question?" Without supplying a context it is logically meaningless.

There is an old riddle in physics:

"What happens when an irresistable force meets an immovable object?"

The answer is supposidly that an irresistable force can never meet an immovable object because the two cannot exist in the same universe without creating a paradox. Our's is observably a universe of unceasing change and irresistable forces like black holes rather than a static unchanging universe with immovable objects. However, Relativity implies that our universe is static and unchanging.

A naked singularity is both the irresistable force and the immovable object. A magical

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Originally posted by Sensei

Peace be with you. [/B]

My XP machine calculator says "undefined". My NT calculator say "Cannot divide by zero". All of this math that you are presenting is based on some loose assumption that "undefined" means infinity. The words of a microsoft calculator are insufficient to prove this point. Undefined does not mean 0 or infinity. It means that it is a meaningless exercise.

Also, infinity does not equal an infinity of zeros. Not if we're going to talk math.

And lastly, there are all sorts of theories that can be supported by a mathematical model( which we don't even have here). That doesn't make them true. Paradoxes exists due to lack of knowledge and understanding. Paradoxes exists in the mind.

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Originally posted by wuliheron

Does the universe allow for paradoxes?

This question is its own answer and, thus, a paradox in its own rite. If the universe did not allow for paradoxes you could not ask the question. It is a bit along the lines of asking, "Can I ask a question?" Without supplying a context it is logically meaningless.

Hmmm I don't see the paradox in either of these questions.

"What happens when an irresistable force meets an immovable object?"

In this one I do. But does it really exists? Thats the question of the thread and I have speculated it does not. Point to an instance of it and I'll point you to something that you most likely lack information on.

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And lastly, there are all sorts of theories that can be supported by a mathematical model( which we don't even have here). That doesn't make them true. Paradoxes exists due to lack of knowledge and understanding. Paradoxes exists in the mind. [/B][/QUOTE]

I concurr.

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And lastly, there are all sorts of theories that can be supported by a mathematical model( which we don't even have here). That doesn't make them true. Paradoxes exists due to lack of knowledge and understanding. Paradoxes exists in the mind.

If paradox only exists within the mind then we cannot trust our minds and this presents another paradox with no logical resolution. If we cannot trust our mind then we cannot trust the assumption that paradox does not exist ad infinitum. A rather negative and self-contradicting, if humorous, view of existence and ourselves.

In this one I do. But does it really exists? Thats the question of the thread and I have speculated it does not. Point to an instance of it and I'll point you to something that you most likely lack information on.

Sorry, but that is not the question of the thread. The original question was "Does the universe allow for paradoxes?" Nowhere does it ask anything about "reality". Personally though, I don't believe in naked singularities or paradoxes either, but then, I don't disbelieve in them either for that matter. I don't know how many times I have to say this before people understand, but it just doesn't matter either way. You might as well argue how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.

Originally posted by wuliheron

Does the universe allow for paradoxes?

This question is its own answer and, thus, a paradox in its own rite. If the universe did not allow for paradoxes you could not ask the question. It is a bit along the lines of asking, "Can I ask a question?" Without supplying a context it is logically meaningless.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmmm I don't see the paradox in either of these questions.

The "question" of "Can I ask a question?" answers itself because it

Likewise, the same holds true for "Does the universe allow for paradoxes?"

Ya'll just don't get it do you? Paradox is slippery, the ultimate logical sandpit. Try to deny it and you create it. Try to ignore it and you find yourself creating it again. All you can do is accept it and move on.

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I don't know how many people I've seen here promoting infinity and "nothing" (of all things!) as the answer to life, the universe, and everything. If I were to believe them all I'd be worshipping countless Gods and studying countless contradictory philosophies. Infinity is just a cheap cop out that allows people to believe whatever they want to believe, but it doesn't make arguments against such ideas futile.

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russ_watters

Mentor

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Clearly the diffraction of light APPEARS to be a paradox: How can something discrete be in two places at once? But maybe we only THINK its a paradox because we don't yet know enough about quantum mechanics.It seems the limited mind in attempting to define the unlimited, sees paradoxes. In a mind state where one could see all, it may be that no paradoxes would exist because each paradox would be a compartment of truth for a larger truth.

So my vote is: uuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhh......

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Now, I should clear up that I was talking about

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