Dyson-Wick formalism in second-order QED - trouble with derivation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the Dyson-Wick formalism in second-order Quantum Electrodynamics (QED) as presented in the textbook by Mandl & Shaw. Participants are examining the application of Wick's Theorem to Feynman Diagrams, specifically focusing on the contributions to the S-Matrix and the complexities arising from contractions in the context of Compton scattering.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the S-Matrix components derived from Wick's Theorem and expresses confusion regarding the transition from contractions to the final equations involving gamma matrices and photon fields.
  • Another participant notes a specific issue with index matching in the expressions, questioning the implications of non-matching indices on the physical interpretation.
  • A third participant offers to assist by suggesting the sharing of more context if no one else responds, indicating a willingness to engage with the problem despite not having the same textbook.
  • One participant elaborates on the definition of the S-Matrix and the interaction Hamiltonian, reiterating the equivalence of two normal products derived from Wick's Theorem but expresses uncertainty about the justification for rearranging gamma matrices.
  • A later reply clarifies that the two terms in question are equivalent due to the nature of dummy integration variables, suggesting that the apparent differences in contractions do not affect the overall result after integration.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing levels of understanding regarding the derivation and the implications of index matching, with some confusion remaining about the justification for certain steps in the derivation. There is no consensus on the resolution of these issues, and multiple viewpoints are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential limitations in their understanding of normal ordering and Einstein notation, as well as the complexities involved in manipulating gamma matrices within the context of QED.

Sojourner01
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I have in front of me Quantum Field Theory, Mandl & Shaw. Chapter 7 deals with the theoretical basis of Feynman Diagrams using the Dyson-Wick formalism.

The chapter begins with applying Wick's Theorem to produce six S-Matrix components with a variety of no-equal-time contractions. It then details the contribution of one:

S^{(2)}_{B}=-\frac{e^{2}}{2!}\int\frac{d^{4}}{dx_{1}}\frac{d^{4}}{dx_{2}}N(\overline{\psi}A\psi)_{x_{1}}(\overline{\psi}A\psi)_{x_{2}}+...]

LaTeX can't adequately represent contraction marks as far as I know, so imagine there's a cntraction between the first psi and the second psi-bar, and a repetition of same with a contraction between the first psi-bar and the second psi.

The derivation goes on to break this down for the case of Compton scattering by electrons; I am struggling to understand how the two complementary components for the two photon fields produce the final two equations; the contractions in each case are reduced to iS_{F\alpha\beta}(x_{1}-x_{2}) with, presumably, the A-slash 1 and 2 on each side. Somehow though the definitions of the slash operator migrate:

\gamma^{\alpha}iS_{F}(x_{1}-x_{2})\gamma^{\beta}A_{\alpha}^{-}(x_{1})A_{\beta}^{+}(x_{2})

and

\gamma^{\alpha}iS_{F}(x_{1}-x_{2})\gamma^{\beta}A_{\beta}^{-}(x_{2})A_{\alpha}^{+}(x_{1})

I am afraid I can't see how the normal ordering resolves to this sequence. Anyone help me revise my Einstein notation and normal-ordering?
 
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Nobody?

If it helps, the difficulty I have is that in the first resultant expression, the indices on the second gamma and the first A don't match. As far as I knew, this didn't mean anything as summation is over repeated indices.
 
Sojourner01 said:
Nobody?

If it helps, the difficulty I have is that in the first resultant expression, the indices on the second gamma and the first A don't match. As far as I knew, this didn't mean anything as summation is over repeated indices.

I don't have Mandl & Shaw, (though I have quite a few other QFT textbooks). If nobody
else gives you a useful answer within a reasonable time, you could try typing in more
of the context here and I'll try to say something helpful...
 
I'll see what I can do...

Given the definition of the S matrix:

S=\sum_{x=0}^{\infty}\frac{(-i)^{n}}{n!}\int...\int d^{4}x_{1}...d^{4}x_{n}T\{H_{I}(x_{1})...H_{I}(x_{n})\}

and the interaction Hamiltonian being (for QED):

H_{I}(x)=-eN\{\overline{\psi}(x)\gamma_{i}A^{i}(x)\psi(x)\}

The time-ordered product of two particles resolves, using Wick's Theorem, to six integrals of normal products, some of which aren't very interesting. The second one is used as an example:

S_{B}^{(2)}=-\frac{e^{2}}{2!}\int d^{4}x_{1}d^{4}x_{2}\left\{ N\left[(\overline{\psi}\gamma_{i}A^{i}\underbrace{\psi)_{x_{1}}(\overline{\psi}}\gamma_{i}A^{i}\psi)_{x_{2}}\right]+N\left[(\underbrace{\overline{\psi}\gamma_{i}A^{i}\psi)_{x_{1}}(\overline{\psi}\gamma_{i}A^{i}\psi})_{x_{2}}\right]\right\}

where the underbraces represent contractions of \psi and \overline{\psi}}.

The author states that the two normal products are equivalent and simply takes the first multiplied by two.

Using the identity:

\underbrace{\psi_{\alpha}(x_{1})\overline{\psi_{\beta}}(x_{2}})}=iS_{F\alpha \beta}(x_{1}-x_{2})

where S is theFeynman propagator; this (apparently) resolves to the two counterpart expressions given in the original post. I don't see it, basically. There seems to have been a shuffling around of gamma matrices with no obvious justification - and you usually can't just change the order of matrix expressions.
 
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The two terms are the same, except for what is being contracted with what. In the first term, \psi(x_1) is contracted with \overline\psi(x_2). In the second term, \psi(x_2) is contracted with \overline\psi(x_1). But, x_1 and x_2 are both dummy integration variables, so swapping them doesn't change the result. Thus the two terms are equal after performing the integrations over x_1 and x_2.
 
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