E-petition to keep creationism out of UK schools

[chiro]

I apologise if you asking the same question over and over which I have answered is suprising to you.

Whilst I don't have a fully written plan of how I would like legislation to be worded (though a clear and accurate description of what I would like was included in my last post) that isn't the point of this petition anyway. These petitions get the matter discussed in parliament if they reach a set amount of signatures. At this point it becomes a political issue within which ideas can be discussed and consultations conduted.

If you want to learn more from a group that is committed to this then I suggest you take a look at this http://www.humanism.org.uk/campaigns/religion-and-schools/countering-creationism

This is going to be pointless then. Having a specific outline of the changes, the authority, and the execution of said authority is the credibility capital to be taken seriously.

A discussion is nothing compared to a prepared protocol that also gets specific of how the problems are overcome.

Getting real change requires this and although I think your hearts (and others) are in the right place, it is not going to be effective without doing the above. I would encourage you and the people that want this change to come up with specifics so that you get more credibility and respect from all sides.

This is how real change happens: it's not through petitions but rather about people who come with specific solutions and more importantly for those who implement them.

 

[ThinkToday]

But Intelligent Design is intended to be a "scientific" theory that can be taught in science class. The science part is lacking. And Intelligent Design is denounced by the Vatican (hence the idea of Intelligent Design being taught in a Catholic school being almost unimaginable, unless you're talking about Eastern Orthodox Catholics which I know little about except they take a more literal view than the Vatican).

Thanks. Interesting. I wrongly assumed that Intelligent Design was a negative catch all label that referred to God having a hand in anything in evolution.

 

[rollcast]

This is going to be pointless then. Having a specific outline of the changes, the authority, and the execution of said authority is the credibility capital to be taken seriously.

A discussion is nothing compared to a prepared protocol that also gets specific of how the problems are overcome.

Getting real change requires this and although I think your hearts (and others) are in the right place, it is not going to be effective without doing the above. I would encourage you and the people that want this change to come up with specifics so that you get more credibility and respect from all sides.

This is how real change happens: it's not through petitions but rather about people who come with specific solutions and more importantly for those who implement them.

But the idea of this petition is that if successful, the issue raised by the petition will be debated in parliament and then the MPs will decide how to move forward on the issue.

 

[cristo]

Read the OP, "prevent them from being taught as such in publicly-funded schools, including in ‘faith’ schools, religious Academies and religious Free Schools" Yes, it was part of the OP.

The exact quotation from the OP is:

We petition the Government to make clear that creationism and ‘intelligent design’ are not scientific theories and to prevent them from being taught as such in publicly-funded schools, including in ‘faith’ schools, religious Academies and religious Free Schools.

This petition does not ask for intelligent design or religion not to be taught at all in schools. It petitions, specifically, for intelligent design to not be taught as a part of science. That is the point that I made above.

 

[Ken Natton]

The exact quotation from the OP is:This petition does not ask for intelligent design or religion not to be taught at all in schools. It petitions, specifically, for intelligent design to not be taught as a part of science. That is the point that I made above.

And that, as it stands, is a perfectly laudable principle and one that should be supported by anyone who understands the value of dispassionate science. My problem is with the underlying suggestion that there is anything wrong with the way things are. I don’t think there is. I think UK (and yes, I mean UK, not just English) schools, including faith schools, get it right. The distinction between science and culture is drawn very clearly and the teachers understand very well what is appropriate in science classes and what is not appropriate in science classes. I am not aware of any danger of that changing. But mounting a petition like this might just provoke a reaction and change the status quo for the worse. I don’t really think that is very likely, but I do not perceive any genuine need for this petition.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

And that, as it stands, is a perfectly laudable principle and one that should be supported by anyone who understands the value of dispassionate science. My problem is with the underlying suggestion that there is anything wrong with the way things are. I don’t think there is. I think UK (and yes, I mean UK, not just English) schools, including faith schools, get it right. The distinction between science and culture is drawn very clearly and the teachers understand very well what is appropriate in science classes and what is not appropriate in science classes. I am not aware of any danger of that changing. But mounting a petition like this might just provoke a reaction and change the status quo for the worse. I don’t really think that is very likely, but I do not perceive any genuine need for this petition.

For the most part I agree but the problem is that under the new academy system adoption there is more leeway and not enough regulation to ensure a wedge can't get in. In fact there are examples of where it already has. Consider petitions like this a preventative measure designed to ensure that the problem never becomes serious rather than a movement to fix a serious problem. After all wouldn't it be good if we acted in a way that prevented a problem from happening? Isn't that a mature thing to do?

 

[f95toli]

I am not aware of any danger of that changing. But mounting a petition like this might just provoke a reaction and change the status quo for the worse. I don’t really think that is very likely, but I do not perceive any genuine need for this petition.

There is already a danger. Academies already have a quite a lot of freedom, and the new free schools even more so (AFAIK there is no religous free school in England yet, but I am sure we'll see them in a couple of years at most).
This in combination with the fact that the ID movement is very international (see e.g. S Korea) and that many of the organizations/chuches that are in favour of ID in the US have branches in the UK means that one can be pretty sure that some one will at least try to set up a free school where ID can be thought as part of the science curriculum.

 

[Evo]

Also, it's easier to stop something before it starts. Religious beliefs should never be taught as science.

 

[Kholdstare]

Also, it's easier to stop something before it starts. Religious beliefs should never be taught as science.

+1