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E-petition to keep creationism out of UK schools

  1. Jul 24, 2012 #1

    Ryan_m_b

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    If you're interested in science education you're going to want to sign this
    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/1617
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jul 24, 2012 #2
    Unfortunately it told me:

    :frown:
     
  4. Jul 24, 2012 #3

    Ryan_m_b

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    Bugger :frown: feel free to pass it on to any Britons you know.
     
  5. Jul 24, 2012 #4
  6. Jul 24, 2012 #5
    Not sure if under-18s can sign petitions but will see what I can do about passing it along.
     
  7. Jul 24, 2012 #6
    Is there really a legitimate threat of creationism being taught in public schools?
     
  8. Jul 24, 2012 #7
    Very dangerous ideas. Personally, I'm not opposed to the teaching of intelligent design, so long as it's not required that a student subscribe to that model AND evolution is taught concurrently. So we're going to tell Catholic schools they can't teach the bible at Catholic schools.....? Very dangerous ideas. My children went to a Catholic school and were taught "intelligent design" in religion class, but were also taught evolution in science class. Personally, I’d like to see many religions taught in all public and private schools, and not taught for the purpose of conversion, but for the purpose of educating. I don’t think someone can understand the world around them without understanding the way it got to where it is, and for better and worse religion played a role.
     
  9. Jul 24, 2012 #8

    Evo

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    Intelligent Design is religion, not science.

    Did you mean "teach about the affect of religion in history"? Surely you can't expect "religions" to be taught in public schools.
     
  10. Jul 24, 2012 #9
    Not sure I agree with this. I think, generally, British schools get it right – certainly the school my boys go to seem to get it right, from my perspective. It is not that religious views should not be taught, but it is all about context. The problem with what is advocated by creationists in the USA is that they say it should be taught alongside science as an equally valid explanation of the world around us. In British schools, science is taught in science classes and religion is taught in RE, which it is made clear is entirely cultural, and the distinction between the two is also clear. At my boys’ school, which is essentially a Christian school, in RE they are taught about Muslim, and Jewish and Buddhist myths and customs as well as Christian ones. I see nothing inappropriate in that, provided the context is right. The creation myth is just that – a religious myth. As such, it is an important piece of history, and taught appropriately, contributory to a well-rounded education. Intelligent design is a recent invention and not actually part of any religion’s cultural history. I’m not sure that there is a particular need to teach it, but if it is taught with the correct context, there is no particular harm either. I see no need for this petition, I think it just might back fire.
     
  11. Jul 24, 2012 #10

    AlephZero

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    Why not? IMO it's perfectly reasonable to give kids access to an accurate set of facts about what other people believe in. Doing that is quite common already in UK schools.

    Spending public money indoctrinating kids in one religion to the exclusion of the rest is a different matter, of course.
     
  12. Jul 24, 2012 #11

    Evo

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    Teaching religion and teaching "about" religion are two different things, IMO, the latter is ok, along with teaching about people that reject religion, if all done without bias. Teaching about current religions in the same way Greek, Roman, etc... mythology is taught is ok. But then, should we also include other supernatural beliefs that have and continue to shape our world?
     
  13. Jul 24, 2012 #12
    I was in a religious school from gr 1 down to gr 8. They had some religious related activities on the side making it unnecessary to include religion in the actual curriculum. I don't see any need of teaching religions, myth and world religions are ok.
     
  14. Jul 24, 2012 #13

    micromass

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    Very well, then we should also start by teaching alchemy and astrology. Some people believe in it, so why not teach it??

    I personally find it ok to teach intelligent design as long as they make it clear that it is completely rubbish and unscientific.

    Also, intelligent design is not a scientific model.

    That is a completely different matter. I'm all for teaching about religions in school. But with that I mean: to teach about all religions. Proclaiming that one religion is true and valid, should not be done. We can teach about the origin of the religions, the values of the religions, the crimes and benifits of religions, etc.
     
  15. Jul 24, 2012 #14
    But the problem arises when in a physics lesson, they can't talk about the Big Bang theory without a "preable" saying that the BB is only a theory that is believed to by scientists and that other forms of creation are equally valid and true.

    In biology we definitely had to learn a bit about intelligent design (although it was 2 years ago and I don't remember the details)
     
  16. Jul 24, 2012 #15

    BobG

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    This would be very unusual for a Catholic school unless you're talking intelligent design generically and not the most popular version of Intelligent Design, which is essentially a modified version of Creationism.

    Not saying your local Catholic school didn't choose to teach Intelligent Design, but the Catholic religion in general doesn't take a particularly literalist view of the bible (although some orthodox branches, etc, do take a more literal view).

    In any event, in the US, parochial schools, including Catholic schools, don't receive public funding and they can teach whatever they want.

    In the UK, parochial schools do receive some public funding. They feel that if taxpayer money is going into those schools that taxpayers should have some say in the curriculum and the education. Seems reasonable to me.

    Won't make any difference in the US unless voucher programs become popular. Then the public has an interest in the kind of education the public is getting for their money.
     
  17. Jul 24, 2012 #16

    Ibix

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    I gather that, under the previous government, teaching Creationism was a no-no. Under the current one, it seems to be acceptable to teach it in religion, and I believe that two schools already do so, and at least one more is planned. Cynical minds wonder if this will be exploited as a way to "teach the controversy".
     
  18. Jul 24, 2012 #17

    cristo

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    This isn't the issue that's being discussed here. The problem is with intelligent design being taught instead of or alongside evolution in science classes. Clearly this should not be happening! I have no problem with religion being taught in religious education classes.
     
  19. Jul 24, 2012 #18
    Wow, I see a few real hot real debates going on, ignited by a simple straightforward post in some places.

    I think I understand it.
     
  20. Jul 24, 2012 #19

    Evo

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    I can't imagine "Intelligent Design" being taught in a Catholic school. Intelligent Design is a protestant invention, it would not be welcomed by Catholics.
     
  21. Jul 25, 2012 #20

    f95toli

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    I could see it happen in some of the new free schools. The fact that such schools can be set up by groups of parents and organizations means that it is almost inevitable that someone will at least try to start a free school with an evangelical christian "profile".
    AFAIK it has never been a problem in the catholic schools.
     
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