Health Benefits of Eating Vegan

[wasteofo2]

I'm not making this thread to start any sort of philisophical discussion about the rights of animals or anything, so please don't turn it into that.

I was wondering if there's any real health advantage to eating vegan. Obviously too much fatty meat and other animal products isn't that good for you, but is cutting animal products out of your diet completely healthy, assuming you replace it with plant based proteins such as those found in soy, nuts and the like?

 

[iansmith]

No long term study that have been done on vegan versus vegetarian or order diet. Vegan do promote some healthy habits such as eat fruit and vegetable. Nuts and some fruit such as avocado do have fat, it is good fat but the effect of too much good fat is not that well study. In term of nutrient, the diet can full it up but there some nutrient that migth be more difficult to obtain from vegetal.

There is many vegan at our univeristy department but most do not seen to be healthier than the average person. Some look a bit too thin in my opinion, it is as if they are starving but I bet they do not have many physical activities in their schedules. I have not seen many in intramurals sports or at the gym.

 

[skywise]

I'm not sure I've read anything conclusive as to whether or not eating vegan is healthier than other diets or not. However, to get all of the proper nutrients and vitamins to maintain optimum health, I've heard that a person would need to be snacking pretty much constantly in addition to regular meals; unless they were taking suppliments. Which is something a lot of vegans don't want to do, supposedly because vegan suppliments are hard to come by. Don't quote me on that one tho.

From my experience ( I haven't been vegan but have been friends with many..), I've never met a vegan that didn't look slender, if not downright underweight.

If one factors in things like bovine growth hormones in dairy and hormones and antibiotics in meats, then I can see how being vegan could potentially be safer. So long one manages to avoid the franken-soy, corn and tomato stuffs out there.

 

[nautica]

There is no way to answer this question with the information given. People give a type of "diet" a name and ask if it is healthly or not.

For example: If one were eating a vegan type diet, which was centered around sugar, would that be healthy. I think not.

Instead of using a fancy name, why not post your typical diet or the typical diet you are contemplating. Starting with breakfast and naming each meal along the way. Then list your exercise habits. At that time I can look at your diet and exercise and deteremine whether that is healthy or not.

Nautica

 

[wasteofo2]

I'm not vegan and have no plans on becoming vegan, I'm merely curious.

I'm not sure an exact diet to ask about, but I want to know if there's anything that simply can't be found in plant products, like a certain protein found only in meat that is nessicary for your cell membranes to stay at their optimum level of selective permeability.

 

[Monique]

Originally posted by wasteofo2
I'm not sure an exact diet to ask about, but I want to know if there's anything that simply can't be found in plant products, like a certain protein found only in meat that is nessicary for your cell membranes to stay at their optimum level of selective permeability.

Cholesterol maybe?

 

[nautica]

I am almost certain that a vegan diet could be healthly. Proteins could come from soy products, Omega 3's could come from flaxseed oils and olive oils, and of course vitamins would not be a problem.

It, also, depends on the persons life style. I enjoy lifting weights and do not feel that I could ever get enough protein without meat. But for others, 200 - 300 grams of protein per day is not neccesary.

Nautica

 

[Monique]

I was amazed by the loads of meat an 'American' eats on a day, especially in restaurants

 

[Mentat]

Forgive me, but, what does it mean to eat "vegan"? Does that mean no meat at all?

 

[nautica]

Originally posted by Mentat
Forgive me, but, what does it mean to eat "vegan"? Does that mean no meat at all?

No meat, no animal products, no firs, no leather, ect...

Nautica

 

[Monique]

no animal products at all. No eggs, I guess no pies either since there is whipped cream or gelatine inside.

 

[iansmith]

Originally posted by Mentat
Forgive me, but, what does it mean to eat "vegan"?

No animal product at all. No milk, yogurt, cheeze, egg, butter or anything that has animal fat as an ingredient or animal by-product.

I know meat can give some creatine and iron in a concentration that are not found in plants.

 

[nautica]

Originally posted by Monique
I was amazed by the loads of meat an 'American' eats on a day, especially in restaurants

Keep in mind that one can eat meat and eat healthy. Example: chicken, salmon, tuna, turkey, lean red meat, ect...

Nautica

 

[Monique]

I don't think a pound of rare steak fits in there..

 

[nautica]

Originally posted by Monique
I don't think a pound of rare steak fits in there..

Maybe, not but it sure does sound good. And a person can actually, stay quite lean and eat that amount.

Nautica

 

[eagleone]

Originally posted by Monique
Cholesterol maybe?

That’s interesting, about 8 months ago, we had something like a quiz from plant physiology, and one of the questions was is there cholesterol in plant cell membranes, there are some sterols but for cholesterol I’ve guessed no. And I was wrong by assistant of the professor, but again another ass. Prof. sad to me that there are no ch. in the membranes, bottom line was as I remember you can find cholesterol in some plants but not in the membrane.

 

[skywise]

Vitamin B12 is essential and a vegan or vegetarian cannot get adequate amounts of this without supplimentation.

The part I'm not sure about is whether or not suppliments of this can be made w/o using animal products. I think it's found only in meat...

 

[Monique]

Originally posted by eagleone
That’s interesting, about 8 months ago, we had something like a quiz from plant physiology, and one of the questions was is there cholesterol in plant cell membranes, there are some sterols but for cholesterol I’ve guessed no. And I was wrong by assistant of the professor, but again another ass. Prof. sad to me that there are no ch. in the membranes, bottom line was as I remember you can find cholesterol in some plants but not in the membrane.

The plant equivalent of cholesterol is ergosterol. Its structure is slightly different, I am not sure if we can use it.. wait, what am I saying? That was yeasts.. never mind!

*starts googling*

 

[Monique]

Plants don't have cholesterol (no ergosterol either) but contain the equivalent sterols and stanols. Maybe we can incorporate those into our membranes without loss of function, I am not sure.

 

[nautica]

Cholesterol in a Vegetarian Diet
Blood Cholesterol and Dietary Cholesterol
The word 'cholesterol' can refer to either 'blood-cholesterol' (the sort the body manufactures in the liver), or 'dietary-cholesterol' (the sort we ingest from food). Dietary cholesterol is obtained exclusively from animal sources (eg. meat, egg yolks, dairy etc) and is absent in plants.

High Blood Cholesterol Related to Heart Disease
Whether vegetarian or meat-eater, a person's blood-cholesterol levels are closely related to the risk of heart disease. The lower the cholesterol level the less chance of heart attack or stroke.

Saturated Fat Ups Blood Cholesterol in Vegetarians & Meat Eaters
Nutritionists and dietitians used to think that a person's intake of dietary-cholesterol affected blood-cholesterol levels, but now things are less clear. It appears that saturated fat-intake rather than dietary-cholesterol-intake is more closely related to raised blood-cholesterol levels. In other words, the higher your intake of saturated fat, the higher your blood-cholesterol levels.

Saturated Fat in Vegan Diet
As a vegan diet contains neither meat nor dairy fats, it is typically lower in saturated fat, which perhaps explains the low levels of coronary heart disease in vegans.

Saturated Fat in Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian Diet
The ovo-lacto vegetarian diet is typically higher in saturated fat than vegan diets but much lower than meat-diets. And ovo-lacto vegetarians too have greatly reduced levels of heart disease. Nonetheless, ovo-lacto vegetarians need to beware their intake of dairy products as well as their consumption of margarine and other processed food that may be high in hydrogenated fats (Trans-Fats) which are saturated.

Heart Disease and Ovo-Lacto Vegetarians - Bottom Line
A heart-healthy ovo-lacto vegetarian diet should contain a maximum of 30 percent calories in the form of fat, of which no more than one third (10 percent of total fat) should be saturated

http://www.vegetarian-diet.info/cholesterol-vegetarian-diet.htm

Nautica

 

[Monique]

Well, total cholesterol is not an indicator of the state of health of a person. Rather it is the ratio between LDL and HDL, into which cholesterol is incorporated. HDL protects against cardiovascular disease, while LDL accelerates it.

Cholesterol is in fact an essential nutrient in the formation of cell membranes, some hormones, and Vitamin D. So you wouldn't want to go completely without.

For a detailed explanation of the different dietary fats and their pros/cons go to the Harvard School of Public Health: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fats.html

"Eat a low-fat, low-cholesterol diet." Most of us have heard this simple recommendation so often over the past two decades that we can recite it in our sleep. Touted as a way to lose weight and prevent cancer and heart disease, it's no wonder much of the nation--and food producers--hopped on board.

Unfortunately, this simple message now seems largely out of date. Detailed research--particularly that done at Harvard--shows that the total amount of fat in the diet, whether high or low, has no real link with disease. Rather, what really matters is the type of fat in the diet. There are bad fats that increase the risk for certain diseases and good fats that lower the risk. The key is to substitute good fats for bad fats.

 

[Jikx]

Cholesterol can be manufactuered by the body, yes?

Reminds me of a mini-quizz question i did, but they never give out answers because they have reused the same questions for the past 5 years.

 

[Monique]

No, I don't think the body can 'manufacture' cholesterol. In fact what happens is that cholesterol is taken up in the bowel and is transported through the blood in complexes called chylomicrons. They reach the liver, which takes it out of the blood stream. Here is a temporary storage, the liver then can release it again.

That's my understanding.

Actually, maybe Acetyl CoA can be made into cholesterol? But where does the Acetyl CoA come from..

 

[Monique]

I stand corrected: de novo synthesis of cholesterol IS possible.

http://www.biochem.emory.edu/classes/BAHS501/Notes_Taryn/Exam3_review.pdf

~50% results from de novo synthesis, apparently

 

[nautica]

yes, the body manufactures cholesterol from fats.

Nautica

 

[Monique]

From fats?? Which fats would that be?

 

[nautica]

Saturated

 

[Monique]

Originally posted by nautica
Saturated

Really, do you know the structure of cholesterol?

http://organic.chem.wisc.edu/343/overheads/cholesterol.gif

You tell me how a 'saturated fat' (very very wide term) is going to react into that..

 

[nautica]

I stand corrected. What I should have said was that increased fat intake, increases cholesterol production.

Regulation of cholesterol synthesis by dietary fat and cholesterol

Cholesterol is an essential component of mammalian membranes and a precursor for bile acids, vitamin D and steroid hormones. Up to now, a lot of studies have been done to determine the effect of dietary factors on circulating cholesterol concentrations in humans, since elevated plasma total cholesterol and LDL-cholesterol have proved to be closely related to atherosclerosis and coronary heart disease (1). Dietary cholesterol and saturated fatty acids (SFAs) increase serum cholesterol concentrations, while polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) lower cholesterol concentrations. Monounsaturated fatty acids (MUFAs) decrease serum total and LDL cholesterol concentrations but have no effect on HDL cholesterol (2,3). However, how dietary fat and cholesterol affect cholesterol synthesis and whether this contributes to their effect on circulating cholesterol concentrations remains unresolved. The purpose of this paper is to review studies examining the effects of diets containing different amounts of fat and cholesterol on cholesterol synthesis. Also considered, is whether reductions or elevations in cholesterol synthesis is responsible for changes observed in cholesterol concentrations affected by diets. The de novo cholesterol synthesis pathway and several methods for cholesterol synthesis measurement in human will be discussed in this paper.

The inputs of whole-body cholesterol pool are mainly from diet and de novo synthesis.
Endogenous cholesterol synthesis accounts for two-thirds of the cholesterol input at the whole-body level, which is about 1 g of cholesterol each day (4). The primary site of de novo cholesterol synthesis is the liver, although extrahepatic tissues such as small intestine, adrenal cortex, ovaries and testes also synthesize cholesterol for various uses. Cholesterol synthesis requires acetyl CoA, ATP, the reduced form of nicotinamide-adenine dinucleotide phosphate (NADPH), and oxygen (4). HMG CoA reductase, catalyzing the NADPH-dependent reduction of HMG CoA to mevalonic acid, is the rate-limiting enzyme in this pathway. Squalene and lanosterol are both 30-carbon precursors of cholesterol, and the difference between these compounds is that squalene is a linear precursor of cholesterol and lanosterol is converted from squalene through oxidation and cyclization reactions.

Nautica

 

[Monique]

Dietary cholesterol and saturated fatty acids (SFAs) increase serum cholesterol concentrations, while polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) lower cholesterol concentrations.

Yes, so a possible reason why this occurs is that saturated fatty acids take up the space occupied by cholesterol in the fatty acid particles such as HDL and LDL. Cholesterol cannot be taken up and thus stays in the plasma.

(the reason why saturated and not unsaturated fats can do that, is that saturated fats don't have double bonds and are thus flexible straight molecules. Unsaturated fats contain double bonds and are thus more rigid and have a crooked conformation. So saturated fats should nicely fit into a micel, while for unsaturated fats this should be more difficult? Just my thought..)

 

[nautica]

Agreed, it is impossible for unsaturated fats to stack neatly, which would allow them to build up.

Nautica

 

[Adrian]

The body produces cholesterol from Acetyl-CoA, which in turn can be derived both from fats and carbohydrates.

http://www.people.virginia.edu/~rjh9u/hmgcoa.html
http://www.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/cholesterol.html
http://www.rpi.edu/dept/bcbp/molbiochem/MBWeb/mb2/part1/cholesterol.htm

 

[Galatea]

I'm vegan and was a vegetarian prior to that. So far, I've not encountered any major health problems though I did get somewhat anemic before reading up on iron intake.

With any major change in diet, you have to take certain things into account and it sometimes takes time to figure things out.

As a menstruating female, I have to worry about iron almost constantly. Needless to say, I eat a lot of spinach and broccoli. :) Iron doesn't synthesize well, if at all, from vitamins.

B12 is definitely a major concern for vegans. Luckily, it can be stored in the body for quite a while so if you switch from an omnivorous diet (that you've had for a while), chances are, you won't have to worry about your B12 levels for quite a while - months usually, sometimes up to a year depending on how much meat you were eating previously. There are a lot of vegan supplements and B12 does well in supplement format. The most common is a sublingual supplement taken once every few weeks or once a month. I know people who get B12 shots once every 4 months or so.

I'm always asked "How do you get enough protein?" This is by far one of the silliest questions I've come across. There is a ton of protein in soy products (tofu, tempeh, seitan etc.) and these are generally staples in a vegan/vegetarian diet. Most people only need about 50 grams/day. Women need less than men. I think men generally require about 50-60, whereas women need maybe 40-60.

As far as cholesterol is concerned, I think it's safe to say most vegans get HDL from various sources (i.e. peanut butter.)

Anyhow, the main point is this: Veganism is like any other method of eating. You'll only be healthy if you do it right and sometimes more care has to be taken for a couple of nutrients (iron and B12, mostly.)

 

[Monique]

And who says the meat eaters get all the necessary vitamins anyway??

 

[Adrian]

"I'm always asked "How do you get enough protein?" This is by far one of the silliest questions I've come across. There is a ton of protein in soy products (tofu, tempeh, seitan etc.) and these are generally staples in a vegan/vegetarian diet. Most people only need about 50 grams/day. Women need less than men. I think men generally require about 50-60, whereas women need maybe 40-60."

The figure for physically inactive people is closer to 80g a day, deüending on size (make it roughly half a gram per pound of bodyweight).
But as soon as the person is invilved in physical activities, the requirements go up. I'm not only talking about a bodybuilder's or weightlifter's 200-300 g / day; endurance sports (as anything else that involves muscular work) increase the need for protein. I'd say a normal, moderately active person who, say, goes running or swimming 2-3 days a week and throws in some situps and pushups in the morning, should be getting between 100-150 g a day. Also, for women, it is very important to get more than their usual anoubt during pregnancy! It will affect the child throughout his or her life.

Actually most Westerners do not get enough protein in their diets, although they could if they wanted to.

One more thing: Plant protein is lower-quality than animal protein (meat and dairy). It has a different mix of amino acids and can only be used to the extent that the least-prevalent essential AS. For example, to build 100g of your own human protein, you need 100g of eggwhite protein OR around 120 grams of red meat protein OR around 170g or protein from soy.

Therefore, I personally believe eating vegan is not very smart from a nutritional point of view. You can debate about red meat as much as you want, but even vegetarians often say they can eat the way they do because of eggs and dairy. I don't see any rational reasons not to eat dairy (a cup of cottage cheese before bed will do wonders). It is very high-quality protein, too.

 

[nautica]

Man, all of this talk about not eating meat is making me hungry. Where's the beef? Rare, please.

Nautica

 

[Adrian]

lol nautica... Nothing beats a pound of rare, sizzlin' beef...

 

[wasteofo2]

Is there any difference between the uses of animal and plant proteins, other than you need more of some than you do of others?

 

[Adrian]

No. All dietary protein is broken down into amino acids.
Their primary use is as a building material for your own polypeptides, e.g. structural polypeptides (muscle tissue, hair, ...), enzymes, hormones, ...
When the body is starving AND/OR the amino acid pool in the bloodstream is full, amino acids can be converted to glucose through gluconeogenesis in the liver for energy.

EDIT Some of the 20 amino acids can be derived from others, but 8 of them (tryptophan, lysine, methionine, phenylalanin, threonine, valine, leucine & isoleucine) are essential: they cannot be produced by the human body and need to ingested with food. Human polypeptides and proteins typically contain them in a certain ratio. The least available essential amino acid in relation to the ratio is a limiting factor for the production of your protein.

Animals have amino acid ratios similar to ours; the amino acid breakdown of their protein pretty much meets our demands. Plants' aa makeup differs more, and some plants lack one or two aa's almost completely. That's why vegeatarians need to balance their diet carefully and should eat / drink plenty of dairy and eggs.

 

[wasteofo2]

What are the specific amino acids which plants lack/are deficient in responsible for and what would be the consequences of not getting them? Are these amino acids found in seafood as well as things like poultry/beef/pork?

 

[Adrian]

Animal protein (which includes all kinds of meat, seafood, dairy, and eggs) is also called "complete" protein because it contains sufficient amounts of all AAs we need.

Different plants may lack different AAs. Go to http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/vegetarian.html and scroll down to Table 4. Protein Complementation for a few examples.

Vegans can complement the protein in the differents plant they eat though. If plant A lacks amino acid X but has all others, and plant B lacks AA Y but is otherwise complete, you can combine them to get all AAs you need. But in the combined protein mix you'd still have only 50% of the AAs X and Y in this case, so that amount will be the limiting factor for your own protein synthesis. It's still much better than nothing, of course.

It's highly unlikely that anyone will miss out on one particular AA completely, unless his metabolism is affected by some kind of genetic disorder. But not getting enough of any of the 8 essential AAs OR not getting enough protein in general will lead to loss of muscle mass and strength, fatigue and decreased energy, stretch marks, can mess up the endocrinal system, will stun growth and mental development during childhood and adolescence, will stun the baby's development during pregnancy, anemia --- basically it will mess up everything in your body that requires proteins as enzymes or as building material. Extreme deprivation od protein over prolonged periods of time will result in death, but before that happens, the body will "cannibalize" its own tissue, such as muscles. That's how people can go without any food for over 3 weeks (e.g. soldiers behind enemy lines).

 

[Galatea]

Originally posted by Adrian
The figure for physically inactive people is closer to 80g a day, depending on size (make it roughly half a gram per pound of bodyweight).

From http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/ProteinRequie.htm

"The WHO protein figures translate into 56g of protein a day for a (75kg) man, and 48g for a (64kg) woman. The recommendations of the UK Department of Health and Social Security (DHSS) are slightly higher, at about 68g a day for sedentary or moderately active men, and 54g a day for women (2). Both these official recommendations suggest that eating 10% of our daily energy as protein will provide an adequate amount."

Actually most Westerners do not get enough protein in their diets, although they could if they wanted to.

I find this hard to believe considering how much meat the average Westerner eats. Reference?

One more thing: Plant protein is lower-quality
Therefore, I personally believe eating vegan is not very smart from a nutritional point of view. You can debate about red meat as much as you want, but even vegetarians often say they can eat the way they do because of eggs and dairy. I don't see any rational reasons not to eat dairy (a cup of cottage cheese before bed will do wonders). It is very high-quality protein, too.

What vegetarians are these? I sure haven't met them. I know a few people whose nutrional requirements require them to consume animal products every now and then but I also know many vegans who do not need them as long as they supplement with B12 occasionally.

I, personally, am quite lactose intolerant. Dairy is out of the question for me despite my moral qualms with consuming it. I get plenty of protein from my (varied) day to day diet.