Effects of backstreaming on a diffusion-pumped system

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of backstreaming on the pumping speed of diffusion-pumped systems, as well as practical methods for calculating volumetric flow rates and conductance in vacuum systems. Participants explore theoretical and practical aspects of these topics, including the implications of backstreaming on system cleanliness and performance.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how backstreaming affects the net pumping speed of a diffusion-pumped system, noting concerns about system cleanliness.
  • Another participant explains that increased backstreaming occurs when the hot oil vapor jet interacts with air molecules, which can require additional components like baffles or cold traps to manage vapor.
  • It is suggested that excessive backstreaming can lead to operational issues if pump pressure exceeds the pumping speed of the oil vapor.
  • Participants express interest in calculating volumetric flow rates in practice, acknowledging theoretical knowledge but seeking practical application methods.
  • One participant raises a question about whether to include the conductance of various components (diffusion pump, mechanical pump, cold trap) when calculating system conductance, indicating uncertainty about the implications of a cold trap not in use.
  • Another participant comments on the minimal effect of cold traps on conductance under normal flow conditions, suggesting that their impact is small if they are properly configured.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the implications of backstreaming and the calculation of conductance, indicating that there is no clear consensus on these issues. Some participants agree on the need to consider certain factors in calculations, while others raise questions that remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the understanding of backstreaming and its effects may depend on specific conditions within the vacuum system, such as flow regimes and pressure levels, which are not fully resolved in the discussion.

rkum99
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Sorry, if this should have been in an homework section.

Anyway, I was wondering what effects backstreaming has on the pumping speed
of a diffusion-pumped system. I can see how you would not want backstreaming
to maintain clean system, but would it also affect the net speed?

Also, does anyone know how to calculate the volumetric flow rate at a point along
the vacuum system. I know how to calculate it in theory, but how would one go
about solving something of this sort in practice (with an actual vacuum system).

Thanks for the help,
me.
 
Last edited:
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rkum99 said:
Also, does anyone know how to calculate the volumetric flow rate at a point along
the vacuum system. I know how to calculate it in theory, but how would one go
about solving something of this sort in practice (with an actual vacuum system).

Thanks for the help,
me.

There is always some increased level of backstreaming as the hot oil vapor jet contacts a greater amount of air molecules as flow is increased that usually requires a baffle or cold trap to condense the vapor back into the pump. Having to pump that escaped vapor back into the pump does slightly effect the max possible pumping speed further along the system. At some point you start to have excessive backsteaming caused by excessive pump pressure that exceeds the actual pumping speed of the oil vapor at the pump causing a hell of a mess.

Some practical methods of calculating vacuum flows and pumping speed can be found here.
https://www.lesker.com/newweb/menu_techinfo.cfm?section=condcut&init=skip
https://www.lesker.com/newweb/menu_techinfo.cfm?section=pumping&init=skip
 
Last edited:
Thanks a bunch, this will be useful.:)
 
rkum99 said:
Thanks a bunch, this will be useful.:)

The rate of oil migration from backstreaming is also determined by the vacuum flow regime of the molecules. At low flow rates and high vacuum the pumping system is in molecular flow so the random movements of oil vapor molecules can easily cause them to migrate into a vacuum chamber.

http://www.pfeiffer-vacuum.com/know...es-of-flow/technology.action?chapter=tec1.2.6
 
One more question:

Say I wanted to calculate the conductance of the system using the diameters of the pipes, do
I need to consider the conductance through the diffusion pump, mechanical pump, cold trap, etc.
I would assume that I need to, but the website seems to imply that I only need to take into
consideration the conductance of the connections.

If this is the case, would a cold trap that is not in use be considered as a pipe?
 
rkum99 said:
One more question:

Say I wanted to calculate the conductance of the system using the diameters of the pipes, do
I need to consider the conductance through the diffusion pump, mechanical pump, cold trap, etc.
I would assume that I need to, but the website seems to imply that I only need to take into
consideration the conductance of the connections.

If this is the case, would a cold trap that is not in use be considered as a pipe?

Normally the traps are directly on top , short and are the same diameter of the diffusion pump inlet so their effect on conductance is small under normal flow conditions. The mechanical pump system conductance is isolated by the compression ratio of the diffusion pump inlet to the foreline so as long the correct level of foreline pressure is maintained it's effect on hivac system conductance is small.
 

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