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Einstein & Religion

  1. Jul 16, 2005 #1
    Read ALL of it:

    http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Theology-Albert-Einstein.htm

    BEFORE you reflect.


    This man has thought far too deeply and he must have read many books. If everyone on Earth developed this understanding there would be no need for so many religions and human unification would be much simplier.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2005
  2. jcsd
  3. Jul 16, 2005 #2
    There r many people who think deeply probably deeper in religion than Einstein, like he was so deep in physics!

    But as u said it if everyone thought the same there won't be a need for any thing in the whole world, we'd be merely copies of each other.

    What i liked in these quotes was the sensation.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2005
  4. Jul 16, 2005 #3
    You have to be careful reading Einstein on mysticism and religion. Yes, he was a genius and, yes, he had some sympathy for mysticism. But he was not himself a mystic. His view of mysticism is not authoritative, and what he says about it, even when he writes in support of it, quite often rather mischaracterises it. Eddington and Schrodinger are more accurate on this topic IMO.

    Btw - The link you gave missed out what is to me one of the most important remarks he made pertaining to the mystical view, which was: "The human mind has first to construct forms, independently, before it can find them in things."
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2005
  5. Jul 16, 2005 #4
    But can those people who think about religion as deep as you say, think of physics in the same way?

    We would not necessarily become copies of each other. If everyone developed this intellectual understanding the desire for blind faith would be erradicated.

    I'm not going to quote Einstein for each misconception, which is why I listed the link to begin with, but you gave no interpretation as to why he was not a mystic. There is a prevailing consensus on these forums: The position of every scientist must be so that no supernatural being can break the laws of science. Because what then would be the purpose of formulating these laws if only then they hold true for a supernatural being? This is a rhetorical question.

    I only ask why do people believe? Given what you know today, given everything that has happened in your life, why do people subject themselves to such guilt? Why should thousands of Africans continue to die of the spread of AIDS because of religious groups that support them that don't endorse the use of contraceptives?

    If the U.S. is the world's super power, although I find it hard to believe when it is only about 5% of the world's population, why are they holding back federal funding on stem-cell research? It's because of conservative values. To destroy cells to save a human, how is this different from war? Where billions of dollars are being wasted in Iraq when it could be devoted to scientific research. Or how would destroying cells be different from murdering someone who is as humanly developed as you are as an act of patriotism? You can squish a bug and feel no remorse for it. We humans tend to think highly of ourselves but we are nothing when compared to the cosmos.

    Religion has those most profound impact on our politics which ultimately effects our science as a whole. Why are people so afraid to abandon their beliefs after seeing how devastating it is on human society?

    I will acknowledge the fact that religion brings much hope to the lives of many which is why it is needed. When you watch religious TV networks, there is much pride in what these people have to say and some find it comforting, especially how one mystifies a miracle which brings more hope to a feeble mind than by cognitive methods; that events occur by coincidence or chance rather.
    Without religion, suicide rates would more likely increase among abuse victims or those who are depressed who depend on their faith as a purpose in life unless we are ready to accept this intellectual understanding.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2005
  6. Jul 16, 2005 #5
    Was this quote used specifically in the mystical context? Because there are many of those who often misuse Einstein's "God does not play dice" and never dare mention that it was in response to the quantum theory. Einstein's books should not be interpreted as a bible.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2005
  7. Jul 17, 2005 #6
    Here's an interesting video everyone should watch but not necessarily follow:

    http://www.vega.org.uk/series/lindau/2004/giacconi/index.php

    You need Real player and start from 7:26-9:17.

    This retrospective view is what many people need to hear. "He goes on to explain that he is not religious and believes that irrational thinking of any kind is dangerous! He hopes that the progress of science can inject rationality into the world!"
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2005
  8. Jul 17, 2005 #7
    I don't get ur point, what i meant was Einstein wasn't so deep on religion, infact he sounds deluded every time i see a quote on that issue...Many people who are deep into religions have a profound knowledge for science, including physics(but they aren't as genuine in physics as Einstein as their own field)...And why can't they??? I don't think they r contradicted...
    I don't remember the name but a priest once made a contribution earlier in physics although what he said wasn't taken seriously by the time but he proved to be right in the end..

    If everyone on Earth thought the same way as u, it will be disastrous.. :biggrin:

    Well our thoughts are the results of our life experiences, u don't have to have the same conviction of Einstein's view for religion and god as a proof that u aren't blinded...
    He was a jewish and he remained a jewish, yet he found a reason to be one, so that he wouldn't be a jewish by tradition, but by his own faith...

    Religions aren't there to leave some hope for the people, religions are to be a desciplined form of expressing a certain belief, ordered organizations to unite people who have the same faith...

    And let me tell u something, humans are unified because they r so similar, yet their experiences differ and so their thoughts, convictions, beleifs, ways of understanding everything differs, and that makes a lot of people think that they should repsect each other's opinion...
    Gladly we differ, but what we miss is to accept that we cannot all have the same way of understanding things, and that is to be respected..
     
  9. Jul 17, 2005 #8
    This was my point as you have aptly expressed and they are contradicted.

    Never did I mention anything in any particular way in the above posts that directly stated that everyone on Earth should think the same as me. For the second time, I had specifically said that if everyone developed this intellectual understanding the desire for blind faith would be erradicated. By blind faith I mean irrational thinking.

    After everything that I had said in this post:

    https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=680690#post680690

    How would this make Earth disastrous? If your referring to stem-cells, well eventually science will progress too far to imagine provided that we survive. It is inevitable. If it's because I don't have sympathy for a couple cells than for a human, does this make me inhumane?

    Please read carefully next time and I apologize if English is your second language. Religions provide hope, I had never said that it was its purpose. There are groups such as alcoholics anonymus and other support groups that depend on religion.

    If religions are to be a disciplined form of expressing a certain belief, what if these views harms society? Extremism or not. Just what exactly happened on September 11, 2001? What happened in Madrid? What recently happened in London during the G8 summit? Why is there so much violence in the Middle-East? As I have clearly stated before. I’m not going to state it again. This is redundant. I have clearly expressed my views.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2005
  10. Jul 18, 2005 #9
    And i said not everyone can developpe the same intellectual understanding for things, i've never said that u r saying that everybody should think the same way or the same way u do, clearly i said that people can't developpe the same way, not all people will have the same views, if even u urself, when u r thinking u get different views, but this intellectual understanding for things and the myth, results from ur life experiences, (i'm not talking about ideas or thoughts again), how can u unify that for people???
    It's gonna be disastrous..


    True that i live in Egypt, but i'm not sure if English is my 3rd or 2nd language, if we say my 1st langauge at school was french, and since everybody at home spoke french, then this was my 1st language, and because arabic is the language of Egypt, that should have made it my native, but i'm only good with the dialect...We started English when i was 9 or 10...
    And i've never had hard time understanding nything in English. Probably u would help me with that!! :rolleyes:

    Because there r a certain disciplined groups that are totally hopeless, lust in what they call a religious order..And guess what they beleive,they believe that they r disciplined and moral, and other people are immoral and needs to behave, else killing will be their punishment..
    They r a disciplined group (and watch out, i didn't say a moral, a disciplined as an army) who thought this will be the only way for salvation, u think this religious group provides hope???
    So clearly i understood what u said, and i don't think the same way and i made my point..

    For ex, i'm an orthodox, but the church state right now is really hopeless, as u said too many blinded people, and things are gettin drifted from the way it should be, so anyway this people will never developpe the same intellectual understanding as einstein or for example mine, they just can't see it, but guess what?? They r happy this way, if they felt truth in what u say, they get scared, maybe u don't understand that because u don't live here...
    But i do, it suits them best...But i found out i don't like the orthodox path, nor the catholic path, but i know these are important for a group to be organized every thing has its advantage and disadvantage.

    The way u are comfortable with it is what matters...

    And the way i see it dome religious groups now provide horror, and scare not hope!!! Hope is for those who want it..God can provide hope but not religious groups, and let me be more accurate knowing that God exists is what provides hope, not being a member in a group...
     
  11. Jul 18, 2005 #10
    OH and what happened in London is Blair's stupidity, what did the people of iraq do to find themselves homeless between a night and day???
    It wasn't anyone's right to get involved in Iraq, although i hate Iraq but this doesn't give anyone the right to make himself a protector for democracy and send armies, that were good for nothing except killing civilians...
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2005
  12. Jul 18, 2005 #11
    A dangerous topic, and I shall only post once on it, but you might like to know that a good many Brits agree with you about this. In fact personally I don't know one who doesn't. Nothing we can do about it unfortunately. There's no alternatives for voters in our sham democracy. As someone said, the trouble with democracy is that politicians always get elected.
     
  13. Jul 18, 2005 #12
    *Sigh* You incorrectly interpreted much of what I had said or you have neglected to read carefully in my posts. It is quite evident after seeing the carelessness on most responses. I have already acknowledged much of what you said in response in my previous posts.

    Nevermind universal religion, how about a universal language?

    We go to school to learn and to understand.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2005
  14. Jul 18, 2005 #13
    And probably u didn't understand what i've said either...

    So what do u suggest in the end???
     
  15. Jul 18, 2005 #14
    I'm not entirely certain now after reiterating it clearly and logically, but I'm rather fond of this:

    Although I'm not sure about the former.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2005
  16. Jul 18, 2005 #15
    Science is important is great infact, something u fall in love easily with...There are many things u developpe from scientific experiences and this is important, but science still remains a confusion, people who go further than science is a necessity to pass my exams and graduate are few...Science isn't a simple path either...

    But i've never studied nor bible, there r thing i understand and i feel, that's why i decided to follow that path also..

    I love my religion and also science...And there r people who follow both paths.
    They r totally different it's hard to choose one...

    I love soccer and it's a religion for me...;)
     
  17. Jul 20, 2005 #16
    What does generating mathematical systems that predict observables have to do with someone's insight into culture, religion and philosophy? Most people with nobel prizes don't get the kind of adoration that Einstein does, and many of them are at least as good - if not significantly better - scientists.

    I guess all you need is fluffy hair and silly clothes and people will hang on your every word; recite from memory every silly quip.
     
  18. Jul 22, 2005 #17
    Your selective attention has led me to believe that you thought I started this thread because of Einstein’s success in physics?

    Just what exactly were you thinking when you wrote this blatant response?! :confused: That last remark was unnecessary and your complete ignorance of this character is evident in your question. That was impressive, the only simple thing that was required of you was to read. He was not only just a physicist and nobel prize laureate but a passionate humanitarian who wrote several books on science and philosophy. There is absolutely nothing in the post, the link, let alone the title of the thread that indicated how generating mathematical systems has to do with someone's insight into culture, religion and philosophy.

    Of course most nobel prize laureates don’t receive the same adoration as Einstein but let us not forget that science is human contribution and regardless as to whether other scientists, in your words, “are significantly better” is irrelevant.

    Congradulations on your intuitive reflection, if your intention was to start a verbal war then you have failed miserably.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2005
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