Elapsed time on accelerating clock

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    Accelerating Clock Time
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the elapsed time on three clocks (A, B, and C) under different conditions of motion and acceleration, particularly focusing on the proper time experienced by Clock C as it accelerates towards Earth. The topic encompasses theoretical aspects of special relativity and proper acceleration, with participants exploring the implications of their calculations and assumptions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Clock A is stationary on Earth, while Clock B travels at a constant velocity of 0.6c, and Clock C accelerates towards Earth at 9.81 m/s².
  • Some participants propose that the elapsed time on Clock B, when all clocks reunite, is calculated using time dilation, resulting in 84.5 days compared to Clock A's 105.6 days.
  • Clock C's proper time upon arrival at Earth is questioned, with participants seeking to determine what it reads when it arrives simultaneously with Clock B.
  • There is a need to clarify whether the acceleration of Clock C is measured relative to Clock A or as proper acceleration experienced by an observer on Clock C.
  • Participants discuss the implications of constant proper acceleration versus coordinate acceleration, noting that they lead to different interpretations of the motion and elapsed time.
  • Mathematical expressions are provided to calculate the elapsed time on Clock C based on its velocity as a function of time in the frame of Clock A.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the framework of the problem and the calculations involved but disagree on the interpretation of acceleration and its implications for the elapsed time on Clock C. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the proper time reading on Clock C at the moment of arrival.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of defining acceleration in different frames of reference, noting that assumptions about constant acceleration may not hold true across all observers. The calculations depend on the definitions of acceleration and the frames of reference used.

Point Conception
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Consider three clocks A,B and C all set at t=0 at t=0
Clock A is stationary on earth
Clock B is on a rocket at a distance of 16.43 (10^14) meters away from Earth and accelerates instantaneously to .6c and arrives at earth. Clock A time = 105.6 days.
Clock C is on a rocket at a distance of 4.08 (10^14) meters from Earth and at t=0 starts accelerating in the direction of Earth with acceleration of 9.81m/s/s
From v= sq rt (2) (acceleration) (distance). And distance = 1/2 (acceleration) (tt). And ds/dt = (acceleration) (t) It takes the Clock C rocket 105.6 days Clock A time to reach Earth that is an elapsed time on Clock A of t= 105.6 days when rocket with Clock C arrives.
Clock B which traveled , distance /rate , also arrives at Clock A time of 105.6 days. The elapsed time on Clock B is, (1/gamma )(Clock A) = .8 (105.6) = 84.5 days
So Clock A reads 105.6 days when all three clocks are back at x=0
Clock B reads 84.5 days
Just before Clock C rocket with v= 8.94 (10^7) m/s strikes Earth what time does it show?
 
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morrobay said:
Clock C is on a rocket at a distance of 4.08 (10^14) meters from Earth and at t=0 starts accelerating in the direction of Earth with acceleration of 9.81m/s/s
Before anyone answers, we need to clarify how the acceleration is being measured. From the equations you have given, it seems you are measuring it relative to A.

However, you might mean the acceleration measured by C (the "proper acceleration", which is the "G-force" that would be felt by a person attached to the clock). If that's what you meant, we would need to change the starting distances to arrange for all three clocks to meet at the same time and place.

So which of these two accelerations do you mean?
 
Yes, the acceleration is beieng measured relative to A.
My question is what is the proper time on Clock C when it arrives at Earth at the same time as Clock B (as above ) when Clock A shows elaped time of 105 days.
 
morrobay said:
Yes, the acceleration is beieng measured relative to A.
My question is what is the proper time on Clock C when it arrives at Earth at the same time as Clock B (as above ) when Clock A shows elaped time of 105 days.
If you calculate the velocity as a function of time v(t) of C in the frame of A, then between two coordinate times [tex]t_0[/tex] and [tex]t_1[/tex] in A, the elapsed time on C would be [tex]\int_{t_0}^{t_1} \sqrt{1 - v(t)^2 / c^2} \, dt[/tex]. If the elapsed time in A's frame is 105.6 days = 9.124 * 10^6 s, and v(t) in A is 9.81*t m/s (so v(t)^2 = 96.24*t^2 m^2/s^2), then to calculate the elapsed time you'd evaluate the integral [tex]\int_0^{9.124 * 10^6} \sqrt{1 - 96.24*t^2 / 8.98755 * 10^{16}} \, dt[/tex] = [tex]\int_0^{9.124 * 10^6} \sqrt{1 - 1.071 * 10^<br /> {-15} *t^2} \, dt[/tex]. You can enter Sqrt[1 - a x^2] into the integrator to see how to evaluate this integral.
 
Last edited:
JesseM said:
If you calculate the velocity as a function of time v(t) of C in the frame of A, then between two coordinate times [tex]t_0[/tex] and [tex]t_1[/tex] in A, the elapsed time on C would be [tex]\int_{t_0}^{t_1} \sqrt{1 - v(t)^2 / c^2} \, dt[/tex]. If the elapsed time in A's frame is 105.6 days = 9.124 * 10^6 s, and v(t) in A is 9.81*t m/s (so v(t)^2 = 96.24*t^2 m^2/s^2), then to calculate the elapsed time you'd evaluate the integral [tex]\int_0^{9.124 * 10^6} \sqrt{1 - 96.24*t^2 / 8.98755 * 10^{16}} \, dt[/tex] = [tex]\int_0^{9.124 * 10^6} \sqrt{1 - 1.071 * 10^<br /> {-15} *t^2} \, dt[/tex]. You can enter Sqrt[1 - a x^2] into the integrator to see how to evaluate this integral.

Clock C on the rocket is accelerating at 9.81 m/s/s from t =0 on all clocks A.B C
until it arrives at earth. See original post. It is accelerating for the total time relative to clock A , That is from t=0 to t= 105.6 From the equations listed in my original post it is shown that the time and distance with constant acceleration by rocket with Clock C , that it arrives at Earth when Clock A shows t= 105.6 days. My question is : what is the
proper time reading on Clock C on arrival.
 
morrobay said:
Clock C on the rocket is accelerating at 9.81 m/s/s from t =0 on all clocks A.B C
until it arrives at earth. See original post.
It can't be accelerating at that rate according to all observers. A constant rate of "proper acceleration" (constant G-force as experienced by an observer moving along with the accelerating clock) leads to a non-constant rate of coordinate acceleration in the inertial frame of an observer, and vice versa. See http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/rocket.html . My calculations above are assuming that you mean the clock is accelerating at 9.81 m/s^2 in the inertial frame of A, starting at a speed of 0 in this frame; if this is indeed what you meant, you can find the answer to your question about the time shown on C after 105.6 days in A's frame by solving the integral I posted.
 
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