Electric field in a solenoid/inductor.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the creation of a magnetic field in an inductor, focusing on the application of Maxwell's equations, particularly Ampere's law and Gauss' law. Participants explore the relationship between electric flux density, potential difference, and charge density, while considering the implications of using AC versus DC sources in inductive applications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses a foundational understanding of Ampere's law, noting that a magnetic H field can be generated by a constant current density 'J' and/or a varying electric flux density 'D'.
  • Another participant confirms that alternating the flux density will produce an alternating magnetic field in the coil, referencing the curl of H in relation to current.
  • There is a query about linking the changing potential difference across the inductor to electric flux density, with a formula provided for the electric field along a wire.
  • Discussion includes the relationship between electric field 'E' and electric flux density 'D', with a suggestion to divide 'E' by the permittivity of free space to find 'D'.
  • Clarification is made that in the context of a static DC voltage, the electric field 'E' is specific to the wire, and the relative permittivity of an ideal conductor is considered to be 1.
  • Participants discuss the implications of dielectrics and the frequency-dependent nature of the dielectric constant in metals.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the foundational concepts of Ampere's law and the relationships between electric field, potential difference, and electric flux density. However, there are nuances in understanding the application of these concepts, particularly in the context of AC versus DC sources and the role of permittivity, indicating that some aspects of the discussion remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the discussion involves assumptions about the nature of materials (e.g., metals as ideal conductors) and the conditions under which the relationships hold, particularly in the presence of dielectrics and varying frequencies.

ElectricJosh
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Hello,

I am trying to create a decent magnetic field in an inductor, I come from an electronics background so I am not a master physicist (I might use this knowledge later if I build an radio system or transformer).

I have been studying Maxwell's equations, more specifically Amperes law.

My present understanding of Amperes law is, that a magnetic H field can be created by a constant current density 'J' and/or a varying electric flux density 'D' (partial derivative of 'D').

I am interested in the changing electric flux density as I do not want to use a high current DC source but rather use a high voltage AC source and utilize the inductive reactance to stop high currents flowing and conserve battery life.

Firstly is my understanding correct?

Secondly can anyone help me link the changing potential difference across the inductor to electric flux density?

I have also come to understand by Gauss' law that Electric flux density is created by charge density 'Pv', in which case, does anyone know how to find the charge across two electric potentials?

I realize that this question is a bit ambiguous but that is why I am asking, any help will be appreciated.

Thank you,

Josh.


Website I have been using: http://www.maxwells-equations.com/
 
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ElectricJosh said:
Hello,

I am trying to create a decent magnetic field in an inductor, I come from an electronics background so I am not a master physicist (I might use this knowledge later if I build an radio system or transformer).
Radios and transformers use magnetic fields in a different way to electromagnets though.

My present understanding of Amperes law is, that a magnetic H field can be created by a constant current density 'J' and/or a varying electric flux density 'D' (partial derivative of 'D').

I am interested in the changing electric flux density as I do not want to use a high current DC source but rather use a high voltage AC source and utilize the inductive reactance to stop high currents flowing and conserve battery life.

Firstly is my understanding correct?
Kinda - if you alternate the flux density, you will get an alternating magnetic field in the coil.
##\qquad\qquad\vec\nabla\times\vec H = \partial_t\vec D + \vec J##
... is the relation you are thinking of.

It is the curl (∇x) of H that means there is a magnetic field around a wire carrying a current.

Secondly can anyone help me link the changing potential difference across the inductor to electric flux density?
The electric field along a length of wire is E=V/L - where V is the applied potential difference and the L is the length of wire thus SI units "volts per meter". D=εE

In a solenoid - look up "inductor".

I have also come to understand by Gauss' law that Electric flux density is created by charge density 'Pv', in which case, does anyone know how to find the charge across two electric potentials?
Look up "capacitor".
 
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Thanks for your reply that helps a lot :)

Just one question, If E = V/L is E the electric field in a vacuum, hence do I have to covert it to D using the permittivity of free space constant?
 
Last edited:
In that context, E is the electric field in the wire - given a static DC voltage.
The relative permittivity of an ideal conductor is 1 in any case, but, in this example, the permitivity is already included when you measured V.

Strictly: ##\vec E = -\frac{d}{dx}V(x)\hat{\imath}## for the 1D case in the example.
Things get a bit more interesting when we consider dielectrics, as your reading about capacitors should show you.
 
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Ah ok thanks, so I could just divide E by the permittivity of free space to find the value of D to put into amperes law?
 
Last edited:
In the DC case, all metals have relative permitivity 1.
In general - all metals have a purely imaginary dielectric constant that depends on frequency.

Note - when you measure the voltages (DC case), you have taken into account the relative permittivity already.

The relationships are:

##\vec E = -\vec\nabla V##

##\epsilon \nabla^2 V = \rho## where ##\rho## is the free charge density.
 
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