Electromagnetic inertia induced by surrounding charges?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of electromagnetic inertia induced by surrounding charges, particularly focusing on the scenario of an electron moving within a uniformly charged sphere. Participants explore the implications of this setup on the electron's behavior and the forces acting upon it, touching on theoretical aspects of electromagnetism and potential experimental verification.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that an electron moving with velocity +v inside a charged sphere experiences an induced electric field and a retarding force due to the surrounding charge, suggesting a form of electromagnetic inertia.
  • Another participant argues that the scenario is only valid for a dielectric sphere, as a metal sphere would cause the charge to feel a net attractive force towards the wall, thus invalidating the initial reasoning.
  • A reference to Dennis Sciama's work is made, drawing a parallel between the proposed electromagnetic inertia and concepts in gravitation related to Mach's principle, raising questions about potential laboratory tests for this effect.
  • Further discussion highlights that the proposed force could modify the inertial mass of the charge, with calculations suggesting that the effect might be measurable under certain conditions, although it contradicts established electromagnetism and relativity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the initial reasoning regarding electromagnetic inertia. There is no consensus on whether the proposed effects can be reconciled with established physical theories, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of the findings.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the assumptions made about the nature of the charged sphere (dielectric vs. metal) and the applicability of the derived equations in different contexts. The discussion also highlights the dependence on specific conditions for the proposed effects to be valid.

johne1618
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Imagine that an electron is traveling with velocity +v inside a uniform sphere of charge at potential +V.

In the rest frame of the electron the charged sphere has velocity -v.

Thus in the rest frame of the electron, inside the charged sphere, there is a vector potential A given by

A = - V/c^2 v.

Now imagine that one applies a force to accelerate the electron to dv/dt.

In the electron's instantaneous rest frame there will be an induced electric field E given by

E = - dA / dt

E = V/c^2 dv/dt

The electron will feel an induced retarding force given by

F = -e E

F = -eV/c^2 dv/dt

Thus the charged sphere induces a kind of electromagnetic inertia on the electron.

Is this reasoning correct?
 
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The uniform motion is possible only if the uniformly charged sphere is made from a dielectric, so that its charge does not move. For the metal sphere, the charge inside will feel net attracting force towards the wall.


If the particle moves uniformly (total force being zero), the electric field in its rest frame is given by

[tex] \mathbf E = - \frac{\partial \mathbf A}{\partial t} - \nabla \varphi.[/tex]

Both terms are zero, so there is no electric field inside the sphere.

Now, if there is another external force, this alone determines the acceleration of the particle. There is no force due to charge at the surface of the sphere - for accelerating particle, the above formula is not valid.
 
This kind of argument has been made in the case of gravitation by Dennis Sciama to explain the mechanism of Mach's principle:

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1953MNRAS.113...34S

He assumed Maxwell-type equations valid for weak gravitational fields.

I was just wondering if the analogous electromagnetic inertia effect could be tested in the laboratory.
 
That is a very interesting paper, thank you for the reference.


In the case with charge inside charge dielectric sphere, similar argumentation, although completely contradicting electromagnetism and relativity, leads to the force you wrote above. This force seems to modify inertial mass of the charge.

Of course, such effect could be in principle tested. For V = 1 million Volts (van de Graaf generator can achieve that), the mass change is

delta m = eV/c^2 ~10^-30 kg,

which is of the order of mass of the electron! So the effect appears to strong enough to be measurable on electrons:-) If it is there, I think it would be in complete contradiction to electromagnetic theory and relativity...
 
What do others think about this argument?
 
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