Programs Engineering Degrees: Is it worth going to UofG, McMaster, Western, or Ryerson?

[Grant_]

For entry into Engineering with my second degree I don't have the grades to get into the University of Toronto or Waterloo. The schools that I've applied for are Guelph, McMaster, Western and Ryerson.

Would spending four years at any of them be a waste? I've found some threads on the internet stating that only Toronto and Waterloo engineering students are hired. I know that coop helps, but is it enough?

Thanks

 

[lisab]

I find it extremely improbable that graduates from the universities you mention can not find jobs. However, I must admit to being unfamiliar with those schools. Are their engineering programs accredited?

In general: the school you graduate from might have a small effect on landing your first job. After you're hired, your alma mater's influence diminishes overnight. Your job performance determines your success.

 

[anubis01]

It's definitely not a waste to go to any of those schools, well expect Ryerson. However I would highly recommend you do COOP during university to build connections and eventually land a job, otherwise going to a less reputable school with no experience would put you at a disadvantage.

Also, have you thought about applying to the University of Ottawa or Carleton University. The good thing about those schools is that there both in Ottawa and the government is very generous when it comes to hiring students.

 

[Thermalne]

Who ever gave you this idea is dead wrong!

An engineering degree is an engineering degree as long as your program is accredited!

It's like asking can only engineers from MIT get a job? The answer is hell no!

 

[Choppy]

Rather than "threads on the internet" you should try to look for some actual data - especially when making a choice like this. Many schools keep statistics on their graduating classes, so you might want to look for these.

Chances are the people who subscribe to this notion - that only those from UofT and Waterloo get jobs - are people studying at UofT and Waterloo.

I knew lots of engineers who went to McMaster who had no trouble getting jobs. Granted that was over a decade ago, but I doubt things have changed very much.

 

[Grant_]

It's definitely not a waste to go to any of those schools, well expect Ryerson. However I would highly recommend you do COOP during university to build connections and eventually land a job, otherwise going to a less reputable school with no experience would put you at a disadvantage.

Also, have you thought about applying to the University of Ottawa or Carleton University. The good thing about those schools is that there both in Ottawa and the government is very generous when it comes to hiring students.

I'd like the possibility of having to commute from Toronto. Although I'm not sure how practical that would be for Western. That being said, I have no problems moving temporarily for coop.

 

[Lame One]

While I do not know much about those two schools in particular, I can tell you that which school you go to will probably have a bit of an impact on your first few jobs, but not much else. Obviously, if you were planning to work on something that parrallels the Manhattan Project, it'd help to have graduated from MIT. But for the most part, the college from which you come from will be helpful in competition (University of Michigan vs. one of those life experience degree schools), but probably won't make or break your chances.

 

[anubis01]

I'd like the possibility of having to commute from Toronto. Although I'm not sure how practical that would be for Western. That being said, I have no problems moving temporarily for coop.

Oh if you live in Toronto that changes things a bit. Ryerson isn't a bad school per say, its just that its relatively new and not as prestigious as UFT, hence in Toronto a lot of the COOP jobs would end up going to UFT, due to UFT's extensive connections with the industry in Toronto. However if you're living with your parents in Toronto(i.e not paying rent) then moving for COOP opportunities would be much more feasible, and would negate Ryerson's disadvantage.

 

[╔(σ_σ)╝]

Oh if you live in Toronto that changes things a bit. Ryerson isn't a bad school per say, its just that its relatively new and not as prestigious as UFT, hence in Toronto a lot of the COOP jobs would end up going to UFT, due to UFT's extensive connections with the industry in Toronto. However if you're living with your parents in Toronto(i.e not paying rent) then moving for COOP opportunities would be much more feasible, and would negate Ryerson's disadvantage.

Your statistics are completely untrue. Do you have proof ?
I am actually shocked by your comment about UofT's extensive connection with the industry. I know there are a few companies that are strongly linked to UofT ...i.e ALTERA. But in general I don't believe this is true.

I am also dissatisfied with your initial comment about going to Ryerson been a waste of time. I go to Ryerson! If I had to do it again I would.

@Grant_

Honestly, no one knows that if you go to school X you would land a job at company Y.

Getting a job has many factors associated with it... how you present yourself, sometimes what school you went to (usual not), who you know etc...

I go to Ryerson and I have gotten job offers from HydroOne and two other engineering companies but I would rather do research in a lab than work there at the moment.

Fellow colleagues of mine from Ryerson have gotten jobs at interest places for their co-op placements. Some examples are Proctor and Gamble, bombardier, AMD, RIM etc. These are just the ones I am familiar with.

Seriously, I have friends for both UofF and obviously Ryerson who could not land jobs for one reason or the other. Sometimes grades is a factor; other times it just their not been marketable. While other times it is simply the Engineering program. I have heard that electrical engineering jobs are easier to get among the other engineering deciplines and this seems to be the case.


Not many people can tell you what percentage of engineering students from university X get jobs. To be honestly most of their information is not available at most institutions. I looked for that same information when I was deciding what school I wanted to go to.

So in summary, go to where ever you feel you would enjoy, have the most oppurtunity to learn and participate in whatever interest you.

Engineering programs teach the same material with slightly different focus. You will fnd that most of your books in Ugrad are common to most engineering student in the same program at different institutes.

 

[flyingpig]

I think it all comes down to "who can get the job done", not where you got your degree from.

 

[anubis01]

Unfortunately Ryerson doesn't provide COOP statistics, but UFT does.

http://www.engineeringcareers.utoronto.ca/Assets/ECC+Digital+Assets/pdfs/PEY+Salary+Stats.pdf

The above link shows the placement rates for the PEY program, its like COOP except the employment terms are a 12-16 month internship with significant pay, that's something not even Waterloo has. No other university in Toronto, and very few in Canada provide that kind of direct link with employers and students, which in this case almost always lead to full time employment with that employer. Hence UFT has greater access to employers and enhances your career opportunities.

Now with that said, it doesn't mean if you go to Ryerson you won't get a job. If a Ryerson COOP student has an A average and a UFT student an A- average, the Ryerson student would win. But its situations where if the averages are tied, the person going to UFT would probably win, at least when dealing with 2nd-3rd year students with no previous employment experience, and factoring in unique employment programs that UFT students have, like the PEY program, Ryerson students are at a disadvantage.

But its worth pointing out that disadvantaged/=screwed.

*Edit
I'd also like to say that its the reasons above on why commuting to Ryerson from another city(and all the expenses that entails) is generally a bad idea, but not a problem for someone who lives in the local region. Although in general, moving to Toronto for school isn't the best thing financially you could do either, unless you can guarantee yourself work terms while you study.

 

[╔(σ_σ)╝]

Unfortunately Ryerson doesn't provide COOP statistics, but UFT does.

http://www.engineeringcareers.utoronto.ca/Assets/ECC+Digital+Assets/pdfs/PEY+Salary+Stats.pdf

The above link shows the placement rates for the PEY program, its like COOP except the employment terms are a 12-16 month internship with significant pay, that's something not even Waterloo has. No other university in Toronto, and very few in Canada provide that kind of direct link with employers and students, which in this case almost always lead to full time employment with that employer. Hence UFT has greater access to employers and enhances your career opportunities.

Now with that said, it doesn't mean if you go to Ryerson you won't get a job. If a Ryerson COOP student has an A average and a UFT student an A- average, the Ryerson student would win. But its situations where if the averages are tied, the person going to UFT would probably win, at least when dealing with 2nd-3rd year students with no previous employment experience, and factoring in unique employment programs that UFT students have, like the PEY program, Ryerson students are at a disadvantage.

But its worth pointing out that disadvantaged/=screwed.

*Edit
I'd also like to say that its the reasons above on why commuting to Ryerson from another city(and all the expenses that entails) is generally a bad idea, but not a problem for someone who lives in the local region. Although in general, moving to Toronto for school isn't the best thing financially you could do either, unless you can guarantee yourself work terms while you study.

I agree with you that Ryerson does not publish such stats but I have to disagree with the following

The above link shows the placement rates for the PEY program, its like COOP except the employment terms are a 12-16 month internship with significant pay, that's something not even Waterloo has. No other university in Toronto, and very few in Canada provide that kind of direct link with employers and students, which in this case almost always lead to full time employment with that employer.

First of all, everyone I know who got highed got paid for their intership. And those at AMD and Hydro got upwards of $19/hr on average after only second year. They also got hired for 12-16 months; most taking the 12 months term in order to return to school.

Also in general, co-op terms almost always lead to a full time employment as long as you didn't make a bad impression while there. So I don't think that getting full time employment is far-fetched even without co-op.

Now with that said, it doesn't mean if you go to Ryerson you won't get a job. If a Ryerson COOP student has an A average and a UFT student an A- average, the Ryerson student would win. But its situations where if the averages are tied, the person going to UFT would probably win, at least when dealing with 2nd-3rd year students with no previous employment experience, and factoring in unique employment programs that UFT students have, like the PEY program, Ryerson students are at a disadvantage.

Again, not necessarily true. I don't have prove to show you but I know this can't be true.
Grades and Universities ratings are not the only criteria which is used to higher students. I cannot emphasize how much marketability and good communication comes into play when looking for a job as a student.

I personaly have seen this at play. I applied for a scholarship given by a engineering company to two students; one a male and the other a female. I along with my friends from other universities, including UofT, applied for the same scholarship. In the end I was the male recipient of that award. It is of interest to note that our GPA's were almost indistinguishable. I still do not know why I was the preferred candidate but I have a feeling that it all come down to who did better on the interview or who the interviewer liked more. Something interesting to note is that the the female recipient was a UofT EngSci student.

I don't want to argue about this but it is not appropriate to make false claims and bais the OP's choice.

Sure Ryerson is not UofT and it will never be; however, that doesn't mean Ryerson is a bad university. I had the option of going to UofT but I choose Ryerson and I would like to think I am not mentally retarded.

There is one thing that is true and that I can attest to; it been that on average Ryerson does not have as good quality students as UofT. There are people hear who do not know what they are doing but will still get engineering degrees. However, this is the case with every universities some having a lower percentage of such students than others.

UofT attracts a lot of bright minds and Ryerson does not do too much of that mainly because of what people hear and various sterotypes.

I should probably stop ranting now. I would just like to say that most accredited engineering program are good for any motivated student.

 

[anubis01]

First of all, everyone I know who got highed got paid for their intership. And those at AMD and Hydro got upwards of $19/hr on average after only second year. They also got hired for 12-16 months; most taking the 12 months term in order to return to school.

Also in general, co-op terms almost always lead to a full time employment as long as you didn't make a bad impression while there. So I don't think that getting full time employment is far-fetched even without co-op.

There is a big difference between a few companies offering a 12 month internship for the program, compared to every company offering a minimum of 12 months, which is why the PEY program is unique, and more often has a higher average payout.

Although 4 month COOP terms can lead to employment, your chances are much greater if you've been working there for a year or more already.

I personaly have seen this at play. I applied for a scholarship given by a engineering company to two students; one a male and the other a female. I along with my friends from other universities, including UofT, applied for the same scholarship. In the end I was the male recipient of that award. It is of interest to note that our GPA's were almost indistinguishable. I still do not know why I was the preferred candidate but I have a feeling that it all come down to who did better on the interview or who the interviewer liked more. Something interesting to note is that the the female recipient was a UofT EngSci student.

A scholarship is not the same thing as a job. When people are competing for their first COOP placements they usually don't have a whole lot to distinguish themselves, so unless the person can separate himself from the pack such as GPA or relevant job experiences, degree reputation is often a tiebreaker.

I don't want to argue about this but it is not appropriate to make false claims and bais the OP's choice.

I haven't made any false claims, and if I recall I provided facts and figures, while you've only provided personal anecdotes that while true in your case, don't always apply to everyone.

Sure Ryerson is not UofT and it will never be; however, that doesn't mean Ryerson is a bad university. I had the option of going to UofT but I choose Ryerson and I would like to think I am not mentally retarded.

This has never been a discussion on Ryerson's quality of education, no one is claiming that UFT is teaching things that Ryerson doesn't. However when it comes to the strength of the COOP or PEY program UFT has, it's better by far and trying to gloss over this very important fact is just simply asinine.

I think this conversation has reached its productive end.

To reiterate my message to the OP, COOP is very important when selecting a school for Engineering. With that said, if you are already living in Toronto rent free, and are willing to possibly relocate during the summer months for work, I think you'll be fine at Ryerson.

 

[╔(σ_σ)╝]

Okay, I understand a bit better your point of view but I still hold to my opinion that it is an exception, rather than the norm, that institution names become the "tie-breaker".

I believe the interviews are usual the tie-breakers.

Anyway, your advice is resonable.
@ OP

Go were you feel like you would benefit the most from; be it Uoft or Ryerson or university atthebackofmyhouse :-).

 

[Topher925]

I went/go to a university that you have never heard of and was getting (great) job offers 6 months and was working for 2 months before I graduated. As long as the school is accredited it really doesn't matter. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

[General_Sax]

I believe the interviews are usual the tie-breakers.

I agree.

No other university in Toronto, and very few in Canada provide that kind of direct link with employers and students, which in this case almost always lead to full time employment with that employer.

UofA and oilsands industry > all

 

[╔(σ_σ)╝]

I went/go to a university that you have never heard of and was getting (great) job offers 6 months and was working for 2 months before I graduated. As long as the school is accredited it really doesn't matter. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about.

Let me guess, you went to UOIT ?

I heard the faculty is close with GM.

I agree.UofA and oilsands industry > all

LOl. I made a typo. I should have wrote "usually".
I heard UofA has a good program.

 

[Grant_]

Alright well out of the four universities, I was accepted to three of them (Western [Chemical Engineering], Guelph [Biological Engineering and Mechanical Engineering], Ryerson [Chemical Engineering Co-Op])... not McMaster (should have written a letter) :/ All options have co-op, it's just a matter of refreshing myself on the types they offer.

I'm going to be researching their employment figures upon graduation, coop hiring statistics and overall satisfaction (just because they're all accredited, doesn't mean they provide the same quality of education). As mentioned before I'm willing to go anywhere in Canada for coop, not just Toronto. If anyone could provide these figures it would be appreciated in case others find it faster than me.

 

[Oriako]

Are you serious? University of Alberta, University of British Columbia, University of Calgary, McMaster University, University of Western Ontario, University of Saskatchewan, etc. are all GREAT schools for engineering! It's definitely worth the time getting a degree at any of these institutions (among a few others I didn't list).

Just make sure you do the co-op program if it is available. My friend's Dad is the Vice-President of a department in Husky and he said that his Dad will automatically hire anyone who has been through the Co-op program and has good grades.

 

[Grant_]

I think I'm going to go with Western even though it will require me to pay for rent given:

Employment after Graduation (Specifically Engineering)
Western: 95.12% (6 months), 97.3% (2 years), 75.4% graduation rate
Guelph: 78.79% (6 months), 90.32% (2 years), 85.2% graduation rate
Ryerson: 91.2% (6 months), 90.9% (2 years), 62% graudation rate

Western has coop just during Summers, which means it won't add on an extra year like Guelph or Ryerson.

From http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/partners/free/cur_2010/CUR_Oct_2010.pdf (Globe and Mail) it ranks Western among the top for Quality of Education and Preparedness in the field of Engineering, whereas the other two aren't mentioned.

And overall the reputation according to Macleans subjectively is higher up overall and in terms of quality.

 

[lurky]

(just because they're all accredited, doesn't mean they provide the same quality of education).

Actually, it kind of does, since that's the point of accreditation. It let's you focus on other stuff instead, like your personal preferences (do you like big or small classes, do you like country or city, do you like scary gothic buildings or ugly yellow buildings, and so on).

Co-op is usually done locally, unless you find yourself a placement elsewhere and get it approved, but then those usually get called internships. The difference between co-op and internships is that internships are usually only 1 year (longer ones exist but you may not get approved) and they don't make a difference on your degree while co-op is usually longer and you get a degree that actually says co-op on it (there may be variations from school to school, though - I don't know what every school is like).

edit:

Western has coop just during Summers, which means it won't add on an extra year like Guelph or Ryerson.

Interesting. Learn something new each time.